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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:03 am 
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Hi guys,

I was creating a new scenario and wanted to add the artillery ammo and began wondering, what is the proper level that should be portrayed when creating a scenario?

The example I have is that the army has 31 guns (10 10lbs Parrotts, 5 20lbs Parrotts and 16 Napoleons). This is based on exhausted the ammo per gun shot option.

A Limber supply per gun is:
50 rounds per 10lbs Parrott
25 rounds per 20lbs Parrott
32 rounds per 12lbs Napoleon

This would amount to:
500 shots for the 10lbs Parrotts
125 shots for the 20lbs Parrotts
512 shots for the Napoleons
1,137 shots total.

The scenario is 25 turns and at most the guns could fire 2x per turn (off. and def. fire) That would be a maximum of 1,550 shots. Would it be correct to assume the 1,137 shots is good enough or should it be reduced for better simulation?

Just curious of anyone knows the answer for this.

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MG. Derek Hampel
Cmdr. Second Div., XV Corps
Army of the Tennessee


Last edited by D. Hampel on Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:26 pm 
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Hi, Derek,

That is difficult to answer. I looked up the Benner Hill duel on the second day at Gettysburg in Pfanz's book "Culp's Hill and Cemetery Hill" and found Latimer's 16 guns fired 1147 rounds during the duel.

I looked up the length of the duel and it reportedly lasted for three hours. That's nearly 72 shots per gun or eight shots per game turn or four shots per player turn. Over 25 turns that would be a maximum of 200 rounds per gun, assuming the gunners and guns could last that long at that rate of fire. Then both armies had a supply of reserve ammo above what each of the batteries had. Not to mention the variety of rounds available in the ammo chests.

So there are a lot of variables.

But the whole artillery system in the game is based on generalities, so I'd say feel free to use whatever number seems adequate, based on the historical situation.

NOTE: Keep in mind each gun had four ammo chests; two limbers and the caisson with two chests, so you need to multiply your number of rounds available per gun by four.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:54 pm 
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Based on the fact that the game uses 20 minute turns and the accounts of the bombardment before Pickett’s charge indicated it lasted about two hours and the CSA guns were running low on long range ammunition in their caissons, which you would think were filled the night before, one can say each gun should be able to fire 10-12 times in game turns with it’s caisson ammo, 2 fire phases per turn 5-6 turns in two hours.

Several detailed boardgames I played in the past used this system, about 2 hours of firing before having to retire the guns to refill the caissons from the reserve supply.

The game engine subtracts 1 ammo per UNIT fired unless using the Optional Artillery Ammo Per Cannon rule, in which case the game engine modifies the ammo levels to account for this rule. Also the game engine takes into account whether an artillery unit starts on the map or arrives as a reinforcement and accounts for the additional ammo the game engine gives you for arriving artillery units.

So you need to add up the number of guns you have on each side, multiply by 10 or 12 and that gives you the caisson load for your artillery. For a short scenario of a Corps or less this should be close to the actual ammo carried by each gun.

For multiple day scenarios you need to add more ammo to account for the extra ammo with the corps or army trains.
From data from some other games I’ve played I use a reserve for the Union of 170%. For the Confederates I use 135%.
So if you have at least a corps size command having a reserve supply would not be out of the question.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:01 am 
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Mike/Ken,

Thanks again for this excellent data. This helped a lot. Much appreciated. :D

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Army of the Tennessee


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 12:34 pm 
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D. Hampel wrote:
Hi guys,

I was creating a new scenario and wanted to add the artillery ammo and began wondering, what is the proper level that should be portrayed when creating a scenario?

The example I have is that the army has 31 guns (10 10lbs Parrotts, 5 20lbs Parrotts and 16 Napoleons). This is based on exhausted the ammo per gun shot option.

A caisson supply per gun is:
50 rounds per 10lbs Parrott
25 rounds per 20lbs Parrott
32 rounds per 12lbs Napoleon

This would amount to:
500 shots for the 10lbs Parrotts
125 shots for the 20lbs Parrotts
512 shots for the Napoleons
1,137 shots total.

The scenario is 25 turns and at most the guns could fire 2x per turn (off. and def. fire) That would be a maximum of 1,550 shots. Would it be correct to assume the 1,137 shots is good enough or should it be reduced for better simulation?

Just curious of anyone knows the answer for this.


Sorry for the lateness of my reply.

Your estimates for the above seem reasonable. I base that claim on the following two books which I recommend for any detailed analysis:
Instruction for Field Artillery 1864 (French et al)
Internet Archive version at https://archive.org/details/instructionforf03deptgoog/page/n3/mode/2up - some diagram plates are not complete,
Google Books version at https://books.google.com.au/books?id=G2cDAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false - some diagram plates partially obscured by the copier [a black person wearing two finger gloves but in some instances touching the book with unfingered gloves] but it appears different plates to the ones incomplete in the other version; and
Instruction for Field Artillery 1861 (French et al) at https://archive.org/details/instructionforf03deptgoog/page/n3/mode/2up.

For example the 1861 book (p13) provides a table for various pieces regarding ammunition and lists a 12 pdr 'Napoleon' as having 20 shot in each chest and with two such chests per caisson you arrive at a total of 40. Other ammunition types are also listed. Obviously, listings in a manual should be regarded as a maximum and such maximums would rarely be achieved in action.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:17 pm 
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Quote:
For example the 1861 book (p13) provides a table for various pieces regarding ammunition and lists a 12 pdr 'Napoleon' as having 20 shot in each chest and with two such chests per caisson you arrive at a total of 40.


Thanks for the links to the artillery instruction manual. Just wanted to point out that while the caisson did indeed have two ammo chests, the limbers for the gun and for the caisson each had an ammo chest as well. That would make a total of 80 shot.

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Forrest's Cavalry Corps
AoWest/CSA


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:31 pm 
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mihalik wrote:
Quote:
For example the 1861 book (p13) provides a table for various pieces regarding ammunition and lists a 12 pdr 'Napoleon' as having 20 shot in each chest and with two such chests per caisson you arrive at a total of 40.


Thanks for the links to the artillery instruction manual. Just wanted to point out that while the caisson did indeed have two ammo chests, the limbers for the gun and for the caisson each had an ammo chest as well. That would make a total of 80 shot.


Noted and agreed.

Also, I always regard manual specifications as an ideal and something not often achieved in battle conditions.

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Army of Northern Virginia


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