American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)
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HPS Fatigue Calculations
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18946		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  nsimms [ Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
When dealing with Rich/JT, send proof (for example, sending 2 consecutive file turns [the before and after] with the password and specifying which unit(s) represent the problem and why). They need to be able to quickly see/recreate the problem and there is little likelihood that they are going to spend all day playing games in an attempt to do so.
Author:  S Trauth [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
John, my response was in regards to Joe's mentioning about assembling a team to contact. I meant there were probably more people who have had interaction with JTS than some might expect.

____

Anyway with regards to the last post (by NSims) - I would strongly recommend that if anyone does choose to go this route, to not use encryption in your files, it is just one extra step that is prone to getting in the way of reviewing files.
Author:  John Ferry [ Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
Yes, encrypting is something I had to get used to in the club. Due to the nature of testing, as you know, we never encrypted, being on our honor to not spy on the enemy!
As per NSims' post, a study such as Bob Frost has done would probably not get much attention, as compared to viewing a file as he says.
John
Maj 2/20th Corps
Author:  CSAJG1136 [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
What is the effect of a brigade fatigue recovery rate in column versus line?
Author:  Joe Meyer [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
Jim, I don't believe there is any difference in fatigue recovery calculations for units in line or column. As long as the unit has not moved or been otherwise engaged in combat it will be eligible for an automatic fatigue recovery, "from 0 to twice the applicable recovery rate, determined by Parameter Data associated with the current battle."
Author:  CSAJG1136 [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
Thanks Joe. I felt they recovered faster in column but have not checked.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Wed May 14, 2014 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
I revive this thread as I currently also scratch my head about how all this fatigue stuff works, especially in view of the optional recovery rule and whether that should or should not be used.

First has anyone a clue why the recovery rates differ so much between the CW series and the Napoleonic series?
In CW we have usually 5% day and 20% night while the Napoleonic series has 30% day and 80% night. Are the soldiers of the Napoleonic times regarded as so much "tougher"?
Just looking at the day recovery and the fact that CW turns are twice as long you will see that the recovery at day is only 1/12 in CW compared to the Napoleonic.
I just wonder with what that is justified.

Now a different thing, did anyone see that with the optional Melee Resolution there can be fatigue recovery although the unit was moved?
If you do nothing with a unit in this Melee resolution it will recover fatigue but it should not at least according to the manual.
Author:  S Trauth [ Fri May 16, 2014 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
"First has anyone a clue why the recovery rates differ so much between the CW series and the Napoleonic series?"

Scenario designer prerogative, you won't necessarily see the same recovery rates from one title to the next in the NB series- as while Bill Peters did most of the titles in the series he has not done them all. It is the same situation in the Civil War Battles series.

If you want to know how that is justified, the only way you will get that is to get it from each individual scenario designer -basically my point is it can vary. I know in my own scenario designs it is going to be based upon what role I think fatigue played in the situation being represented (although it has nothing to do with either series being mentioned.). That beings said though -the considerations are exactly the same.
Author:  KWhitehead [ Fri May 16, 2014 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
Quote:
Now a different thing, did anyone see that with the optional Melee Resolution there can be fatigue recovery although the unit was moved?
If you do nothing with a unit in this Melee resolution it will recover fatigue but it should not at least according to the manual.


This is an oddity of "Turn" play. In "Phased" play the fatigue recovery occurs as described in the User Manual. For some reason in Turn play it follows a different set of rules but since they aren't given in the manual. It looks like all units recover from fatigue in Turn play regardless of whether they moved, had combat or didn't do anything. There is some indication that they do recover faster if they don't move but I haven't tested this.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Fri May 16, 2014 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
@S_Trauth
Thanks for the answer.
Thought a bit about how Napoleonic and CW simulate combat and I think the higher rates in Napoleonic might come from the fact that, at least according to Bill Peters, Melee is basically the advance on the enemy and can depict various things not only Bayonet attack but also close quarter firefight, because of that melee seem much more likely in Napoleonic and so something has to be don to counter that or the armies wouldn't be able to fight an all day battle.
From the description in both series manuals the aim of fatigue seems to be the same.

@KWhitehead
Well it isn't the turn gameplay itself but only the using of the Optional Rule "Optional Melee Resolution" when doing turn gameplay.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: HPS Fatigue Calculations
Now can anyone explain the fatigue losses accumulated by melee?

From the manual, p.27:
"Melee fatigue losses are 50% more than normal and, in the case of the melee loser, fatigue losses are double."

From the manual, p.39:
"Fatigue results are calculated as random values between the casualty value and 3 times the casualty value."

So now I had a melee which I lost with 44 casualties but my fatigue raised 480 points which just doesn't fit in the frame of the above mentions calculations, either that or I'm too stupid to calculate.
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