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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:20 am 
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Gentlemen,

I’m going to float an idea by you all. If it receives the response I expect, I will put in the work to make a formal presentation to the Cabinet, but it will require quite a bit of work that I don’t want to do unless it seems to be a popular idea.

This club was designed for role-playing of officers during the American Civil War. Because of that, the club was set up with two military ‘sides’, one representing the USA and one representing the CSA. This is not and never has been a ladder-style club, where members rise in rank simply by playing (and winning) games.

Basic to a military set-up is a hierarchy. Both sides use the same hierarchical set-up, with new members (after graduation from ‘basic training’) assigned to command a ‘brigade’. Those brigades are grouped in divisions. Divisions are grouped into corps, which are grouped into armies, which are grouped into the two sides (USA and CSA). (I’m ignoring theaters, since these have been done away within the club.)

Intrinsic to the structure is communication up and down the hierarchy. The most basic of these communications is the muster, a ‘roll call’ down the hierarchy. The club collects no dues; the muster is the way the club verifies a member is active. There are various ways members are ‘active’: Many members play games, even multiple games at one time. Some focus their time and attention on running their commands or leading the club on the Cabinet. Some are engaged in building new scenario variants, and/or setting up and running various tournaments. But the muster is a universal way to 1) maintain communication up and down the hierarchy and 2) verify that all members are still alive and want to be considered active.

Even from the early days, some members resisted the idea of the muster. It was ‘too much of a burden’ to reply to an email every month (or however often the muster was called for). Some division commanders were reluctant to call for a muster from their brigade commanders – again, it was ‘too much work’ to send out an email once a month. The use of the muster seems to have degenerated, at least in some commands, from ‘reluctance to use’ to ‘non-existent’. This is the issue I would like to address.

During the actual war, there were (of course) two military ‘sides’, as represented in the club. But there were also independent combatants who, though nominally aligned with one side or the other, operated outside the direct control of the military or even civilian leadership of either side. These ‘independent combatants’ were called various names: irregulars, guerrillas, ruffians, bushwhackers, partisans, renegades, outlaws, thieves, what have you. Although the leaders of some of these groups nominally held rank bestowed by one side or the other, they were seldom subject to orders – the best the organized military personnel could hope for from these groups would be that they might be open to ‘suggestion’ or ‘guidance’. They were never (to my knowledge, at least openly) provided with weapons, equipment, or supplies by their respective sides, or even the pay of soldiers.

I propose a third ‘side’ be established in the club, for those who prefer to operate outside the two formal military organizations.

Members of this group would hold no official military rank in the club. They would still have access to the various taverns and boards, including the “Opponents Wanted” board, and could participate in any sanctioned games.
Members in this group would not be organized hierarchically, would not be subject to musters, and would receive no Administration or Conduct OBD points. Since rank in the club is a matter of point accumulation, and these members would hold no official rank, there would be no need for them to receive Engagement Points for battles, either. A matter still to be decided would be whether or not members of this third group would retain voting privileges.

Current members of either side who prefer to transfer out of their current side could resign their commissions and be transferred into this irregular outfit (still to be named). Remaining members could focus on the role-playing of officers upon which the club was founded.

The end result would be (I hope) that the military sides would be strengthened in their organization, and those members who were not interested in participating in the military would still have access to the club.

I need to state that this idea goes against every fiber of my strict, law-and-order being. But I recognize that there are those who see things differently than I do and who remain in the club only for access to gaming buddies, and to the technical support provided through shared experiences. For that reason, I am bringing up this idea for your consideration and discussion.

Oh, and the Subject title of this post (“Irregulars – Missouri Compromise of 2020”)? I’m from Missouri. The Missouri Compromise of 1820 was one of the early efforts to settle the sectional differences that eventually led to the outbreak of open hostilities between the North and the South. That compromise did not settle things, but were one of a series of attempts that at least prevented open conflict for another 40 years. If this adjustment can help our club continue for another 40 years, I think it will be worth it. :D

Now it’s your turn. What do you think? Let’s hear your thoughts.

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General 'Dee Dubya' Mallory
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:27 am 
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If there is really one who sees a reply to a muster call as burden, then one has to wonder what contribution that person could give to the PBEM club. If answering a mail a month is too much, what does he do in a game with daily turn exchanges?

This club just doesn't run alone and it's just a proper behavior to answer a muster call so that those doing the work do not waste their time one people that aren't there anymore.


As for the third side, I wouldn't mind it but the NWC tried this and we didn't get much effect out of it, since 2015 7 joined as so called Associate Members and their gaming activity was almost zero. So I'm not sure if its worth the effort.

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Lieutenant General Christian Hecht
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:37 am 
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General Mallory <salute>

General Hecht beat me to it. My immediate reaction is the same. If replying to one email a month which requires no more than an "I am here" is too much of a burden, I don't think the club will gain much at all by trying to attract or retain such members. The JTS Opponents Site is where these folks can and should land.

Respectfully,

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Walter A. Dortch
Commanding -/4/V AotP
UA Cabinet Secretary

UA Operations Officer
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:05 am 
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We tried that since 2014 with Observer Corps! We have 3 members and 1 might be active. lol

The concept was no affiliation with either side, but no other restrictions.

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General Ernie Sands
President ACWGC -Sept 2015- Dec 2020
7th Brigade, 1st Division, XVI Corps, AoT
ACWGC Records Site Admin

"If you do not know where you are going, any road will take you there."


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:44 am 
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I'm old and the brain/memory was questionable even when I was younger, but that's the first I've heard of an Observer Corps. But anyway, I'm one of those that have doubts about this idea also. Even, or especially, if it was popular; who trains them if they are new, who adds them to the list/DOR and maintains it, since they don't muster and some battles can last for years how do you keep the list from growing to a thousand people on it but only 20 are active, when they engage in battle with a 'real' club member is it a battle or a maneuver, can the DOR handle awarding points to the 'real' club member and none to their opponent? But I dwell on the negative side. Let me list the advantages of this. I'm thinking! The only thing that I can think of is that every one that are responding here are people who muster every month. We really need to hear from someone on the other side of the fence who has quit mustering and thinking about dropping out because of it.

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Gen Ned Simms
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:05 pm 
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nsimms wrote:
I'm old and the brain/memory was questionable even when I was younger, but that's the first I've heard of an Observer Corps. But anyway, I'm one of those that have doubts about this idea also. Even, or especially, if it was popular; who trains them if they are new, who adds them to the list/DOR and maintains it, since they don't muster and some battles can last for years how do you keep the list from growing to a thousand people on it but only 20 are active, when they engage in battle with a 'real' club member is it a battle or a maneuver, can the DOR handle awarding points to the 'real' club member and none to their opponent? But I dwell on the negative side. Let me list the advantages of this. I'm thinking! The only thing that I can think of is that every one that are responding here are people who muster every month. We really need to hear from someone on the other side of the fence who has quit mustering and thinking about dropping out because of it.


General Simms,

1) I'm with you on the Observer Corps. (I figured it was something that came along while I was away.)

2) My thought would be that a new member would still have to join a military side and go through the training. After that, if he decided role-playing an officer was not for him he could resign his commission and be transferred to the 'Irregulars'. (I would also see the 'Irregulars' as being a sort of holding tank - if a member wanted to rejoin, it would just take submitting a request to the CoA.)

3) As far as having a large number in the Irregulars is concerned, I would personally prefer that inactive members stay there, no matter how large it gets, than to continue bloating the 'regular' organization with dead wood. If they're content to just play games, they won't bother anybody. :)

4) I concur with your thought that only members who are active are apt to be reading the post in the first place.

5) (Bonus - you didn't bring this up. lol) The alternative, in my view, is to conduct a muster and hold members' feet to the fire, so to speak. I've heard that the USA side is good about maintaining order, but that the CSA side is, shall we say, 'more lax'. If the problem really is only (or mainly) on the CSA side, then it behooves those of us on the CSA side to tighten our practices and clean house.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:39 pm 
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nsimms wrote:
I'm old and the brain/memory was questionable even when I was younger, but that's the first I've heard of an Observer Corps. But anyway, I'm one of those that have doubts about this idea also. Even, or especially, if it was popular; who trains them if they are new, who adds them to the list/DOR and maintains it, since they don't muster and some battles can last for years how do you keep the list from growing to a thousand people on it but only 20 are active, when they engage in battle with a 'real' club member is it a battle or a maneuver, can the DOR handle awarding points to the 'real' club member and none to their opponent? But I dwell on the negative side. Let me list the advantages of this. I'm thinking! The only thing that I can think of is that every one that are responding here are people who muster every month. We really need to hear from someone on the other side of the fence who has quit mustering and thinking about dropping out because of it.


General Simms,

I failed to address some of your questions:

1) "Who adds them to the list/DOR?" I haven't worked out all the details, of course (as I said, there will be quite a bit of work to do yet! :D ), but I would think the CoA of each side would be the one to do any transfers, once those transfer requests are brought to his attention, through channels. (I did mention that I am a bit of a strict, law-and-order guy, didn't I? :) )

2) "Who ... maintains it?" I don't see any 'maintenance' to it. Once placed in the 'Irregulars', a member would remain there until returned to active duty. (I used to think that when someone was discharged his name was deleted from the club roll entirely. I have discovered that anyone who has ever been a member is retained on the database indefinitely. (Member #1 is blank - a 'placeholder', apparently. Member #2, Lars Wistedt, is listed as "Retired".

3) "When they engage in battle with a 'real' club member is it a battle or a maneuver?" Good question. One that would definitely need to be addressed when tackling the details.

4) "Can the DoR handle awarding points to the 'real' club member and none to their opponent?" Another good question. I expect this would be a question for the programmer(s) in the club. If the answer is 'no' (or, more to the point, 'not without a great deal of effort'), then this could be addressed in the Club Rules some other way.

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General 'Dee Dubya' Mallory
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:33 pm 
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dmallory wrote:
The alternative, in my view, is to conduct a muster and hold members' feet to the fire, so to speak. I've heard that the USA side is good about maintaining order, but that the CSA side is, shall we say, 'more lax'. If the problem really is only (or mainly) on the CSA side, then it behooves those of us on the CSA side to tighten our practices and clean house.


Well the club rules demand that you do at least 1 muster per quarter. So regular quarterly muster could be enforced.
I do not see any duties like the Union has listed them so maybe the CSA could just copy the muster duties out of the Unions duties and adjust them to quarterly musters. Afterwards conclusions out of failing to musters or failing to do the muster calls can be drawn.

I'm not sure how long the CSA is in that state but right away a hard muster could be done, 3 muster mails in 3 months to really make sure these calls reached everyone and then apply the result to the CSA by removing all that failed to muster.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:36 pm 
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dmallory wrote:

General Simms,




2) "Who ... maintains it?" I don't see any 'maintenance' to it. Once placed in the 'Irregulars', a member would remain there until returned to active duty. (I used to think that when someone was discharged his name was deleted from the club roll entirely. I have discovered that anyone who has ever been a member is retained on the database indefinitely. (Member #1 is blank - a 'placeholder', apparently. Member #2, Lars Wistedt, is listed as "Retired".



Members are retained in the DOR database to protect the integrity of the scoring. That is, there has to be an opponent listed and for historical reference if a member returns from inactive (discharged, retired, hospitalized).

The DOR database is separate from the Forum database. A member (forum database) may be active (be in either side database) or inactive (transferred to the inactive database).

MY head hurts.

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General Ernie Sands
President ACWGC -Sept 2015- Dec 2020
7th Brigade, 1st Division, XVI Corps, AoT
ACWGC Records Site Admin

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:04 pm 
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This is an interesting proposal by Gen. Mallory, one, I suspect, that may have been generated in part by the current, unverified state of the CSA OOB. And I believe that David should be complimented on his effort to direct the club's attention of how to properly regard those members who continually fail in observing their one and only requirement to membership: the muster!

There is in all of us a penchant for not wanting to be unnecessarily bothered by what we feel or think of as an encroachment upon our time and freedom. We instinctively flinch from being told what to do, even if it is something that we know to be right or required. The ACWGC used to demand that membership was predicated upon having at least one game underway all the time! It was thought that was a way in which a member's activity would further justify his presence and vet the club's OOB. But this was recognized as being too stiff of a requirement, given all of the Real Life situations that could arise and consequently penalize a member. So the club members embraced the change, recognizing in the process that the muster requirement was enough to validate an officer's presence! If one answered up to the muster as given, that was certainly enough to validate his presence, especially for voting privileges.

"2.4 Musters. There are no club dues and no regular club meetings. It would be easy for someone to drop out of the club and the club would never know. The rules for the muster may be set up by the Chief of the Army or the Army Commanders and not be less frequently than once per quarter. Generally, the muster will be via the chain of command and is usually by email or by message board postings. Other means might be used, such as a web page format."

It is clear from the above that both sides of the club are given the freedom to administer the basics of the Muster in their own way, as long as they observe the existing club rules and create no conflicts. The Union Military Group adopted a monthly Muster and promulgated the specifics of how that was to be done in its own Standing Orders (http://www.unioneaglesonline.com/UAHQSO/UAHQSO.htm). Concurrently a more accountable method was adopted for the assignment of officers to administrative commands. No longer would officers be assigned based solely upon seniority. The CoA was charged to approve and vet every AC, CC and DC as a potential candidate, emphasizing the role responsibilities of properly and regularly conducting the Muster and providing patronage. As the serving USA Chief of Staff during that period of time, I was able to witness the transformation that happened as a result of those changes. Approximately 30 to 40% of the existing cadre was discovered as being no longer there, and a consolidation of the field armies was undertaken as a result. Another 10 to 15% dropped off by the wayside as being resistant to any form of Muster, leaving the Union Military Group a hard core count of around 130 to 160 validated members over the succeeding years. The monthly Muster is now a commonplace, accepted and regularly practiced convention of the Union Military Group. The four current AC's are able to see who was there for any particular month in any particular year by their own working records.

I've gone to some length in relating all of this because the Muster concept works quite well, if properly conducted, and provides a monthly check upon the health of the club. It is a basic function of any organization to know how many members are present. Moreover, it is something in which the member can take some pride! By responding each month with a simple "HERE" or "PRESENT," that member is actually saying: "Hey! I'm here, too, and I respect and am thankful of all of you who are here with me! I enjoy this club as much as you do and I'm proud to be a member of it!" How on Earth, could anyone object to that? We as members receive a heck of a lot from this club of ours. Answering up to the Muster, however constructed, is also an ongoing statement of personal appreciation and intent. "I like this club and intend to continue to be a part of it!"

The ACWGC is not for everyone and there are other places where a player may go to satisfy his personal wants. But I don't believe that an "irregular," non-reporting organization ought to become part of it.

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General Jos. C. Meyer, ACWGC
Union Army Chief of Staff
Commander, Army of the Shenandoah
Commander, Army of the Tennessee
(2011-2014 UA CoA/GinC)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:40 pm 
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Although one can see the muster process as a pure check for active/inactive members and by that regard is as rather less important, one has to look at the complete process so that he realizes that it's as much about the one who conducts the muster as it is about the one who replies to it if not more.
By replying to a muster call the officers allows his superior to fulfill his duties and proof that he is capable of doing admin work reliably, a requirement absolutely necessary for any higher positions. And so all officer should realize that mustering is also a support for a fellow officer.

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Lieutenant General Christian Hecht
Commander I Corps, Army of the Potomac
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:02 pm 
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Generals Hecht and Meyer <salute>

I agree completely with the sentiments you have expressed here. Replying to a prompted email once a month to announce you are still part of our Club is no burden.

I agree, too, that understanding what the active Club membership actually is very important information for a variety of reasons. We have no need to cater to people who find such a simple requirement to maintain their membership onerous.

The muster process presently being used by the USA side works and CSA should implement it immediately.

Related to this, I suggest that both sides send out, along with their next muster requests a survey for club members to assess their current satisfaction with the Club, suggestions for improvements, etc. Such as survey has been developed by the Recruiting Team and I believe it would serve the purpose here.

Respectfully,

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Walter A. Dortch
Commanding -/4/V AotP
UA Cabinet Secretary

UA Operations Officer
UA Wolverine Team Leader


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