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Jim Pfleck
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:07 am 
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As Andy noted, it used to work that way that they automatically disordered. I checked in NRC and Bautzen and the skirmisher disorder trick, as Andy noted, has been written out of the code.

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Clint Matthews
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:24 am 
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Christian Hecht wrote:
That is again very different from what I read out of the manuals in both series.
At first it's explicitly mentioned that cavalry becomes automatically disorder when doing a charge:
"At the end of the player’s turn, Cavalry units which moved using the Cavalry Charge are automatically Disordered."
(p.22 Campaign Leipzig)
As that is extra mentioned I assume that it is not the normal behavior and so attackers do not automatically Disordered unless failing a moral check.


For the defender it's mentioned:
"The melee defender is subject to normal Morale Checks based on their losses and must automatically take a Morale Check at the end of the Phase or Turn if they lose the melee."
(p.33 Campaign Leipzig)
Again no sign of automatic disorder.


I just did a bit testing and meleed and I see that attackers & defenders can get out of a melee without being disorder.


that is interesting......thanks for the info.

I have never seen a unit ....or noticed...not disrupt in melee when it has taken casualties.

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Jim Pfleck
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:35 am 
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Clint,
It is likely that you have never seen that (and I too cannot recall ever seeing it, well, maybe once) because people usually melee with a large enough force to have a chance to win, which thereby causes enough losses to disorder...

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Andy Moss
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:58 pm 
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And of course when you have forces of mixed nationality as allies, put one nation behind the other and even if successfully meleed, a unit cannot retreat on top of another nation so stays put....
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Christian Hecht
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:08 pm 
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I tried that just in Leipzig an indeed I can't even manually move a unit into another unit that has a different nationality.
That isn't mentioned anywhere in the manuals.
Does this even count for officers?

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Andy Moss
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:08 am 
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I assume it counts for Leaders yes. I don't know for sure. It certainly affects skirmishers so I think it affects leaders. It was something added in the last but one patch as I recall. Personally I had no problems with mixed stacks in retreat or rout.
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Ernie Sands
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:10 am 
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Test.

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David Guegan
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:21 am 
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Andy Moss wrote:
And of course when you have forces of mixed nationality as allies, put one nation behind the other and even if successfully meleed, a unit cannot retreat on top of another nation so stays put....


I think it has been like that for years no?
If I remember even in the BG series at Waterloo it was impossible to mix the Brits with the Prussians.

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Andy Moss
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:04 am 
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In the BG games you certainly could not voluntarily mix units. But I think they could be mixed if a unit was meleed on top of another one, or if they routed together. I haven't played those games for some time now so can't be sure.
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Ernie Sands
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:58 pm 
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Test, again.

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Ernie Sands
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Christian Hecht
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:47 pm 
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I suppose this should push the player even more to separate the different nationalities.
When you think of scenario like Leipzig where the Allies are played by a single player you already have a coordination of the different nationalities that is well beyond anything that really happened, so having the game mechanics work like this will likely only foster a more historical gameplay.

@Ernie Sands
If your testing for mail notification, it works for me again on the NWC.

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Richard Bradshaw
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:42 pm 
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I always play the allies and had not thought of that. That doesn't sound gamey, that sounds like sound tactical planning!

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Ernie Sands
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:21 pm 
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Great, Christian, thanks.

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Ernie Sands
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Jeff Bardon
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:59 pm 
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Andy Moss wrote:
And of course when you have forces of mixed nationality as allies, put one nation behind the other and even if successfully meleed, a unit cannot retreat on top of another nation so stays put....


Or, stack a couple light units behind the front line unit, and breakdown into skirmishers up to max units per hex. That will also stop retreats. Very useful for holding onto those final contested objectives at the end of a battle when the opponent has last move.

Less gamey and more a reaction to the fact that infantry and cav always seem to have a magnetic attraction to the opposite when routing in these games, I do try to keep max stacks in reserve to prevent random disorder due to rout paths.

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Michael Ellwood
 Post subject: Re: Gamier than a Grouse
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:07 pm 
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The game-ist thing I have ever seen (actually I have never seen it!) is SHARPE!

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