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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:50 pm 
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I get this question every so often: "Bill, how are the Victory Points calculated for lost leaders?"

Here is how they are calculated:

• The Leader’s Command value is converted into a numeric value using the assignment A = 6, B = 5, …, F = 1.
• To this value, the Leader’s Leadership value is added using the same numeric assignment.
• Depending on the command level of the Leader, the value is multiplied by a factor:
o Army Leader => Factor = 4
o Wing or Corps Leader => Factor = 3
o Division Leader => Factor = 2
o Brigade Leader => Factor = 1 (no change)
• Finally, the value is modified according to how the Leader became a casualty:
o Killed => No change
o Wounded => Value is halved
o Captured => Value is doubled

A couple of sample cases:

Thus a Brigade commander of E Command (2) and C Leadership (4) if killed would be worth:

2+4 = 6
x 1 for brigade level
x 1 for being killed
6 points

Napoleon if Captured: 5 leadership and 5 command, army level (x4) would equal:

10 x 4 = 40
x2
=80 points

And if anyone captures Scott Ludwig on the field of battle he would be worth (hypothetical case):

Command Level: 8
Leadership Level: 10
Super Army Level Command: x5

8+10=18
x5=90
x2 (for being captured) = 180

Go for it guys! :mrgreen:

Anyway, hope that helps.

I would be worth 2 points so don't waste your time! :wink:

Al Amos cannot be caught as his Siberian Mailwagon is armed with a 12lber and eight tiny reindeer. MP allowance of 90 and uses a special Evasion option.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:36 pm 
No way am I going for Al, but that Scott Ludwig character is worth a lot of points! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Are Hanoverians allowed to capture Prussians? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:56 pm 
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Hahahah nice Bill! :mrgreen: A Prussian Crown Prince is always worth a lot.

I love the well written Al Amos part.... :D

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:48 am 
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Forums quiet so I necro this interesting post. Have wondered about it for awhile now. So, that's the reasoning behind wound, kill, capture parameters.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:37 pm 
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For me, if Napoleon is ever killed or captured, then the game is over. He was the French Empire. Without him, the whole Empire crumbles. :nappy:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:25 am 
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Totally agree Ken. Good luck with Paco letting that happen.

:frenchlol:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:05 am 
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Would be best if these and most other values were moddable. Dunno why wing and corps leaders are grouped within the same multiplier. Each formation level should at least double in points due too at least twice as much army priority per general officer rank.
Army 32
Wing 16
Corps 8
Division 4
Brigade 2
Regiment 1 (if than else)
Therefore Napoleon really would be worth 10 thousand men. Actually, 16 thousand if captured and you use 1VP/25 infantry. ;]


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:11 am 
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Geoff - pretty much program changes are not going to happen unless the WDS takes over the Napoleonic Battle series. John Tiller is just swamped with Air Force work.

I only handle questions regarding the work that I did for the JTS games. So asking me questions about why this is not in the program or why the graphics look like they do is not my dept.

Thanks for your interest in changes to the series. Rich Hamilton @ the support email would be the guy to forward those to.

For 19 years I have done my part to see changes made to the games. Each title I worked on I tried to get something changed. Lately it was the length of the night turns and visibility ranges. Done my part .. moving on ... hoping someday many of my ideas get added in such as the Arty Capture and Spike rules and others.

:frenchsalute: :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:46 pm 
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I was just spitting out an observation. Hardcoded changes like this would be very simple. Just a series of integer edits within the source file functions and recompilement of the executable. There would be the necessary redesign of scenarios based on any new leader VP values though. Generally, people underestimate the potential for development of this series. MSVC is a very straight forward compiler which allows easy window formatting. Not as robust as Borland C++ but, it can handle exponentially more detailed functions and process than the current revision. Even a brainlet like me could accomplish it given the proper software and annotated source files.
I see the writing on the wall concerning NB's funerary march though. I don't think cancelling development is a good idea at all. Battleview is still a great basis for progression and after a season's coding would be alot better and profitable.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:17 am 
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Geoff McCarty wrote:
Would be best if these and most other values were moddable. Dunno why wing and corps leaders are grouped within the same multiplier. Each formation level should at least double in points due too at least twice as much army priority per general officer rank.
Army 32
Wing 16
Corps 8
Division 4
Brigade 2
Regiment 1 (if than else)
Therefore Napoleon really would be worth 10 thousand men. Actually, 16 thousand if captured and you use 1VP/25 infantry. ;]


I TOTALLY disagree that Wing and Corps leader VPS should be separated with Wing commanders being worth 2x as Corps COs.

Allies had Wings in the older armies and the French had them too. They were like a Corps level of command.

Even when you had Grouchy and Ney in charge of Wings in 1815 their loss COMBINED would not have meant as much as Napoleon's.

I would not vote for such a change.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:17 pm 
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I don't suppose wing command was an actual administrative duty. Just an ad-hoc battle assignment. So, if the forces were 3 corps in size left, right, and center wing commander would be corps level. In the same sense as a brigade sized garrison maybe given a division command title due to it's important task. You bring up Ney in 1815 who was in command of the left wing at Quatre Bras which consisted of 2 infantry corps and a cavalry corps. If Ney were captured at Quatre Bras and the allies victorious (due to VPs of course) than Napoleon might as well start picking out drapes for the Longwood House in St. Helena.
Not that I'm defending my idea or math just postulating on hardcode changes. Good programmer practise would be to export values like this in several categorized string value files like the current .pdt. A debug program is also needed for the confusing combat dialog mathematics. Without a debug program or executable switch which does verbose logging there is no play testing just play-guessing.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Done discussing this ....

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Geoff McCarty wrote:
I don't suppose wing command was an actual administrative duty. Just an ad-hoc battle assignment. So, if the forces were 3 corps in size left, right, and center wing commander would be corps level. In the same sense as a brigade sized garrison maybe given a division command title due to it's important task. You bring up Ney in 1815 who was in command of the left wing at Quatre Bras which consisted of 2 infantry corps and a cavalry corps. If Ney were captured at Quatre Bras and the allies victorious (due to VPs of course) than Napoleon might as well start picking out drapes for the Longwood House in St. Helena.
Not that I'm defending my idea or math just postulating on hardcode changes. Good programmer practise would be to export values like this in several categorized string value files like the current .pdt. A debug program is also needed for the confusing combat dialog mathematics. Without a debug program or executable switch which does verbose logging there is no play testing just play-guessing.


While suggestions are always welcome, you may be better off sending this to HPS support. Some of what you are suggesting is beyond Bill’s control.

Also keep in mind that the guys who test the games for Bill may not take your comment about “there is no play testing just play-guessing” to kindly

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:23 am 
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I avoid one on one contact with companies and the government as much as possible. Nothing's worse than the feeling you're just being "handled". If JTS had a public forum than I'd post there about these concerns of mine. If I can't convince Mr. Peters of the need for progress than I doubt I'll have any more clout than him with Tiller's inner circle. More importantly that progress isn't brickwalled by technicality due too MSVC code being user friendly. Don't see why playtesters who apparently aren't given the proper tools would dispute it with a third party who plainly states the problem.
Anyhow, my Leipzig 15 minute scenario is going well. Large scenarios are fun because you can really get into the operational side with sense of wide scale repercussions to your manuevers. I just hope that the tactical side of things doesn't break down like when I would play against myself. My latest gripe is cavaliers charging an entire battalion battle line front in support of cannon without flinching. Rather silly when compared to 1/4 of a battlion square being able too brush off a charge. Happy mediums to the extremes in formations and rules would really make this game great.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:21 am 
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Hey Geoff!

Always glad to see folks post here about the more technical aspects of the games! Likewise, JTS does have a public forum that might be of interest to you, as well as here:

https://jtsdev.vbulletin.net/

Glad to see you looking for games too and don't forget to register them!

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Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
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