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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:56 am 
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Afternoon Tony (we are in same time zone although I hear Birmingham has one of its own “Burmmie Time) :)

I am not only interested but having, in the dim and distant past been a Cabinet member I would have been greatly offended if those that make use of the services I helped to provide were disinterested in my fate especially if I considered it unjust. :!:
You may not be even reading this as if you are truly depressed you will have exercised your provocative and not left clicked the Thread.

Nice to see not all the French Officers are “poodles” who respond to their master command (sorry advice). :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:08 am 
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Jim...

I was only trying to avoid having this thread get to heated. Sorry if you are offended. This is really an allied army issue, just did not want to interfere

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:15 am 
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I normally stay out of these types of discussions or attempt to deflate them by injecting humor. This time I can find nothing funny about the possibibility of someone in an elected club position firing another person in an admin position over a personal difference. This would be a gross misuse of position if that were the case. IMO this would also be grounds for the immeadiate replacement of the person which in this case is CiC of the Anglo Allied Army. Since I also believe there is a larger issue at stake that crosses any artifical club boundries such as what army this occurred in, I think it needs to remain right here in the open. The fact is it is difficult enough to find people who are willing to give of their time and effort to do the administrative functions which keep the club going and to have someone kick a person to the curb because they have some philosophical and personal differences with them is unfair and unconcionable.

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:17 am 
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What happens in the Coalition has a direct affect on the club as a whole. Which in turn affects the LGA. If my memory serves me right the current Coalition C-n-C walked away from his responsibilities in the cabinet. Therefore they need a replacement.

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:32 am 
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Hi John

Absolutely no offence taken.

I don’t think this discussion is heated but I do think that this matter is of sufficient importance for the general membership to be involved.

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’


Yes this begs the question am I a good man, well it depends to whom you speak :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:55 am 
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Aloysius Kling, Sr wrote:
What happens in the Coalition has a direct affect on the club as a whole. Which in turn affects the LGA. If my memory serves me right the current Coalition C-n-C walked away from his responsibilities in the cabinet. Therefore they need a replacement.


For sure there is a problem within the actual cabinet. Nobody can deny that.

Most of the rules changes affect the members of the club who are volunteering to do something within each army or at the club level: there I am talking about the Army commanders, Cabinet, CiC etc... and corps commanders to some extent.

Then if we go further we can see that up to yesterday nobody in the club said anything about fairness and equality between the French and Coalition Armies. The Fact that we have only one army on the French side with 5 corps (+1 Garde Imperiale) [and about 100 members] but no mechanism in the new system for voting process within it but on the other side we see 5 Coalition armies [with about the same amount of members] of different size and no other option than voting for each army to elect their leader [what ever the size of the army].

Now, I have seen that some members of the Cabinet wanted a consensus decision-making (see >>here<<, that process was shut down by "majority vote", I think it was damageable to the discussion process about the new rules.

I even think, but unfortunately it's too late now (and I have said it before) that it would have been better if the rules changes had been discussed with the members of the club instead of having some members of the Cabinet take on themselves to write the rules, decide the way it would be voted and even the way it should be revised.
Did we (the members) had a say about it? No, we can only vote on the finished product. And knowing that the majority of members won't feel any difference with the new rules it is expected that at the end all the rules will be the rule of the Land.

Now that there was more discussion on the main board I wonder if all the cabinet members would vote the same way they did.

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Red Nemesis wrote:
I normally stay out of these types of discussions or attempt to deflate them by injecting humor. This time I can find nothing funny about the possibibility of someone in an elected club position firing another person in an admin position over a personal difference. This would be a gross misuse of position if that were the case. IMO this would also be grounds for the immediate replacement of the person which in this case is CiC of the Anglo Allied Army. Since I also believe there is a larger issue at stake that crosses any artificial club boundaries such as what army this occurred in, I think it needs to remain right here in the open. The fact is it is difficult enough to find people who are willing to give of their time and effort to do the administrative functions which keep the club going and to have someone kick a person to the curb because they have some philosophical and personal differences with them is unfair and unconcionable.



Please do inject some humor. I think we could use some.

There are a lot of assumptions at this point but not a lot of clarity. We know from the rules discussion and other posts that Mark is not pleased with Marco as CiC. He has not been quiet about that, and as President, his position allows him to exert influence on the army command more than a CoS position would otherwise be entitled. From the same discussions, Marco is not pleased with Mark. He withdrew from participating further in the cabinet rules discussion as he apparently felt his minority opinion was note being listened to.

So, is this just a personal issue between the two of them, an unreasonable use of position, or just a normal part of the change that Marco alluded to? The CiC is charged with the administration of the army, and apparently the coalition is undergoing an overhaul which is good to see. The chief of staff reports to the CiC, so Marco is free to make staff changes. Can a CiC move forward with his plans if his chief of staff is not on board or does not support them? Perhaps we will see more clarity with the annual report.

If Mark feels it is necessary, he can certainly appeal to the cabinet, but as David mentioned, there have been no new posts there in quite some time, so it does not appear to be discussed. Even if the rules are not passed as written, it just means they go back for further revision, so i am confident there will be multiple elections as scheduled later this summer/early fall. The allied CiC is scheduled to be up for election this year, so that is the method for replacement if the coalition members so desire.

Like John, I think this is primarily a coalition issue, to be settled by the army command and eventually the ballot box. Until then, I'd like to think that both gentlemen are acting as they see best for the coalition and club. Let's see what the reasons are and not make any further assumptions until there is clarity.

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Duc de Castiglione et Prince de Wagram
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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Quote:
I even think, but unfortunately it's too late now (and I have said it before) that it would have been better if the rules changes had been discussed with the members of the club instead of having some members of the Cabinet take on themselves to write the rules, decide the way it would be voted and even the way it should be revised.
Did we (the members) had a say about it? No, we can only vote on the finished product. And knowing that the majority of members won't feel any difference with the new rules it is expected that at the end all the rules will be the rule of the Land.

Now that there was more discussion on the main board I wonder if all the cabinet members would vote the same way they did.

I agree in part of what you have said, but none the less in the past the members had little or nothing to say on what and how the cabinet did things. The present cabinet as whole has come up with a plan to give them just that. Simply put, the cabinet is the governing body of the club and in the near future if the members are unhappy with what the cabinet is doing they can vote them out.

In the past cabinet members were selected by the other cabinet members and out going CnC selected the resigning CnC. So the idea of voting is an entirely new concept.

I am part of the cabinet that came up with these changes and while we may have made mistakes this is our first go at it. So it easy to criticize or use hindsight after the fact, but we have put together the most progressive plan ever placed before this organization.

Your present active cabinet members are listening to all that is being said and I am sure they will be presenting some of what is being discussed to the members in the future.

I was trying to think of something funny to say to end this post, well I cannot think of something. So all I will add, is please give us chance to keep moving things forward and I urge all members to bring forth all the ideas they may have, But...

I would not change my vote. but like I said hindsight is not a gift that I possess.

I am proud to have been part of the changes presented to the membership and I will do even more to address issues and move the NWC even further along with the ideas of the members.

Battle On...

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:09 pm 
Salute!

David Guegan's recent post below I felt more properly belonged in another thread, so I copied it in Voting for Club Rules thread, and responded in that one.

This is simply to take caution on hijacking the present thread.

Regards,


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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:14 pm 
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"The chief of staff reports to the CiC, so Marco is free to make staff changes."

Jeff,

Marco is not free to abuse his positition and remove a productive Chief of Staff because he is angry with him and is feeling vindictive irregardless of the rest of the points you made...or if he is free to do so I think that needs to be changed. I have little insight into the things you have mentioned so I can only assume someone has shared their opinions with you. As regards the management of the AAA I go by what I see and what I have just seen I do not care for.

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General de Brigade, Ed Blackburn
13ème Régiment d'Infanterie Légère
1er Brigade, 1er Division,
5eme Corps d'Armée,
La Grande Armée

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Ed,

Reading through the rules discussion posted in the reading room has made it clear that they do not approve of each other's conduct. As far as anything further, I choose to assume positive intent from each officer until I see more. I certainly hope it is not.

Regards,
Jeff

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Division de Cavalerie, IV Corps
Duc de Castiglione et Prince de Wagram
Commandant de la Garde Imperiale

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Posts: 680
Location: United Kingdom
Gentlemen

At last "true colours" are being hoisted (by the way that's how Brits spell colors)

You don't have to like somebody to work with them, especially if they are good at their job.

If the interpretation above of the Army Commander's role is correct he can arbitrarily dismiss any Allied Officers from their command (got my transfer request drafted :D ) now that is taking Role Play too far :!:

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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:03 pm 
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Jeff Bardon wrote:
Ed,

Reading through the rules discussion posted in the reading room has made it clear that they do not approve of each other's conduct. As far as anything further, I choose to assume positive intent from each officer until I see more. I certainly hope it is not.

Regards,
Jeff


What else could it possibly be Jeff? Marco just woke up one morning and felt like having a new Chief of Staff? Actions speak louder than words..sorry for the cliche...

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General de Brigade, Ed Blackburn
13ème Régiment d'Infanterie Légère
1er Brigade, 1er Division,
5eme Corps d'Armée,
La Grande Armée

Bourbonnais sans tache


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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:06 pm 
Marco & Mark have been arguing for almost 2 1/2 years now.....just so everyone knows, this isn't something new. :)


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 Post subject: Re: A Corps Commander very much in the dark
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:02 pm 
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Scott Ludwig wrote:
Marco & Mark have been arguing for almost 2 1/2 years now.....just so everyone knows, this isn't something new. :)



Arguing is one thing Scott, vindictive behavior is on another level.

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13ème Régiment d'Infanterie Légère
1er Brigade, 1er Division,
5eme Corps d'Armée,
La Grande Armée

Bourbonnais sans tache


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