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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:59 am 
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Mark Hornsby picked up my challenge for a player to try out my Limited Reaction rules for the JTS games. We are playing the Eckmuhl 02h. Teugh-Hausen scenario. Its got enough formations and terrain to let us see how the rules work.

The idea is that formations wouldn't be able to react to events happening on sections of the battlefield that were a. out of their line of sight and/or out of command control.

The French have the III Corps. One full division is facing the Austrians with a portion of another off to the French left. More French troops arrive later.

The Austrians have one brigade of the 3rd Light Division up on the knoll overlooking Teugn. A line division is off to the southeast of their position on a hill. The remainder of the corps (less one brigade of the 3rd Light Division) is back near Hausen (Fixed) and will come up later.

Initially the Austrians did not react to the initial attacks. Hence the fixed status. Once they release I am going to use a reaction method to see how long it takes them to get moving. This will be different from most games where the Austrians just start moving forward as soon as they are released. It could take anywhere from 1-6 turns for them to move forward.

Once the Corps commander is forward to see the attack he can them move to the rear and once in command control range cause the division leader of the reserve division to react.

Adjacent brigades can always assist each other regardless of LOS as long as the units that spot the enemy are in command control.

Anyway, its a departure from the normal type of play where if a formation is 100 hexes away, out of LOS and out of command control of a higher HQ (army for instance) they immediately can react to events happening on other parts of the battlefield.

For the next game will implement my rules for Orders.

I plan on posting a series of screenshots and notes once the game is over so folks can see how it played.

For our next scenario we will play the larger scenario that includes the action that occurred to the east. More of Davout's men faced off against portions of the IV Corps (Rosenberg). Put together its a great scenario to play to use these rules. The woods that separates the combatants caused fog of war for Charles. He had no idea what Davout was up to. (and to a certain extent the reverse was true too)

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Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles and Panzer Campigns series - John Tiller Software


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:45 am 
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Interesting. Thanks for keeping us informed.
Please continue.

Regards and keep well.
Sellick

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:34 am 
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The Battle had started at 11am but as part of some of my brigades where without Brigade Commanders or other units within the Brigade the attacks have been halted. We are trying to keep Brigades together. I should have all my units together by 11.30am so the attack can start. Obviously it will get messy in the woods to the East of Teugen where units are going to be thrown into the combat but I intend to try and keep my units together.

Hopefully this game and others will demonstrate real life situations and make the gaming more realistic rather than relying on the stacking of units to take out as many casualties and gain as many points as possible. As has been shown the battle has really not got under way due to units and commanders not being present. Can you imagine if Waterloo had started 2 1/2 hours earlier.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:48 pm 
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Just did the 11:30am turn. The III Corps released but due to the lack of visibility to the front the corps commander did a personal recon of the front. The reserves will start moving forward next turn.

If we were playing with the Orders rules then a die roll would have been needed to change their orders to "Maneuver - Attack" or "Maneuver - Defend" .... with subsequent turn delay based on the die roll.

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Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles and Panzer Campigns series - John Tiller Software


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:53 pm 
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Here are the rules we are using:

----------------------------- Rules and Comments Follow -------------------

Limited response to action.
1. If brigade leader has no LOS to action he cannot respond unless in command control of Division leader.
2. Same for Division leader - within command range of the Corps leader.
3. Same for Corps leader - within command range of the Army leader or within 30 hexes of the corps commander whose troops are under attack AND BOTH Corps commanders must be in command control of the Army leader ...

For example:

If a brigade in the 2nd Division of Davout's III Corps is under attack then other brigades in that division that do not have an LOS may respond if they are in command control. If they are not then they may use the adjacent rule if it applies. If not then they may use the "March to the Sound of the guns" roll if so desired. If they do the die roll and obtain a result, if they come into command control on a turn before the roll would take effect then they may respond sooner. Always go with the "best" possible check result.

Just check to see if the leader is noted as "Detached."

Command Test results do not impact commanders. Thus if the leader is noted as having failed its Command Test ignore this as part of the Reaction test.

For formations in different Corps:

Both Corps commanders must be within 30 hexes of each other for brigades in their command to assist other brigades in the other corps. Adjacent brigades can always assist each other. Just because they are in LOS of each other does not mean that they can react to each other. The Corps rule is strict.

Lefebvre must be in command control of the division leader whose troops are to go to the aid of one of Davout's formations

AND

Davout must be within 30 hexes of Lefebvre.

OR

Davout and Lefebvre are in command control of Napoleon.

If a brigade has all of the above satisfied then they may react on the next turn. It is highly UNLIKELY that brigades will be able to react to action that is occurring on other sides of the battlefield.

If NOT ....

We will use an online die roller to determine if the formation that desires to go to the aid of their comrades will "March to the sound of the guns"

d10 roll:

0-4 - no response
5-7 - respond in 6 turns (one hour)
8-9 - respond in 12 turns (two hours)

Pretty simple rule. If you cant see the action happening then you cant respond. Troops do NOT block LOS for this check. Terrain does!

Thus if you stick a formation into a woods ... better keep some of its units (or leader) to where they can see what else is going on around them.

*Note:* adjacent brigades - those that have their commanders within 5 hexes of each other regardless of organization - can always go to the aid of their neighbors regardless of terrain.

------------end of rules-------

We are using this site to roll dice. Read 10 as 0.

http://roll-dice-online.com/

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Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles and Panzer Campigns series - John Tiller Software


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:07 am 
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It is now 12 noon and the French have moved to foot of the Buch and Hausner Bergs with their skirmishers out in front, Progress is slow in the centre and especially in the wood to the east on the French left flank. A gap has opened up between the French troops in the centre and the wood on the left flank, hopefully this can be filled by the reinforcements being directed by Davout in Teugn. Austrian cavalry has been spotted on the Hausner Berg which may require the skirmishers to be recalled and the French to form square. On the French right flank French skirmishers have meleed with Austrian skirmishers and ground has been gained but at a cost. Hoping to get my cannon on the Buch Berg and cause damage to the Austrian infantry and cavalry.

My right flank brigade 3B/4D/IIIC will soon be out of LOS so a dice roll will be needed to decide if they can turn and support the centre if it gets into trouble. This battle is going quite well and seems to be running well using the new rules put together by Bill. Its making the battle operate on a very realistic setting and this is just using a basic set for now, once we add in the orders, etc, it will make all the difference.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:09 am 
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Vukassovich's light troops back away from the Buch Berg this turn and are falling back from the tidal wave of French soldiers.

Moving the reserves up now. I have played this scenario so many times and yet it never fails me how different the outcome can be.

Had to decide how to handle the future threat of the light forces of the French on my right flank that will eventually show up. Just hoping I have enough troops to hold them off.

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Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles and Panzer Campigns series - John Tiller Software


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:01 am 
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It is now 12.15pm and the battle is going well for the Marshal Davouts III Corps. The French troops have gained ground and took the Buch Berg and positioned cannon on it to cause problems to the Austrians. The going is slow in the woods on their left flank due to the terrain and also on the right flank due to harassing Austrian skirmishers showing bravery in front of the advancing French troops. The gap in the centre is about to be plugged by 2 full brigades and supporting artillery, can the Austrian troops hold of such an attack? we shall see.

This battle is very exciting. Will the French win and sweep the Austrians from the field or will Davout have to retire and loose his line of communication with his Bavarian allies, only time will tell.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:19 am 
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12:15 Austrian turn 6 - The threat to my left flank is minimal at the moment so I launch a stunning cavalry charge with both squadrons (in separate attacks) which captures one of the French batteries and runs over a skirmisher unit causing further damage to one of their lines. Although I lost 200 troopers the loss of 9 guns is harder on the French. They wont be able to support their advance as well with artillery fire.

The reserves continue their ponderous move to the front.

Right now Mark is wishing that the series had an "Artillery Capture Rule" whereby he could fight to regain the guns! :frenchwink: (well I do too!) :thumbsup:

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:31 pm 
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:frenchsad: :frenchsad:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:01 pm 
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:frenchshock: Cant believe it :frenchshock:

I have been looking at this battlefield for a considerable time now and I am bewildered at what to do next. :displeased: :displeased:

:hmmm:

:hmmm:

:hmmm:

Then like a ball from a musket it hit me :smug: The French shall destroy what is left of his cavalry and plug the gap in the French center between the wood and the advancing French line.

The remaining battery on the Buch Berg has caused 61 casualties and the Light infantry nearby have supported it and along with musket fire from the now stalled French center troops in range about 200 more Austrian cavalry lie dead or wounded leaving no more than 70 cavalry left. The advancing French center has come to a standstill and the French are looking shocked and bewildered at this time but hopefully they will recover and continue to advance.

The advancing right flank is still moving southward and continually being harassed by Austrian skirmishers causing it to be slow.

The advance in the woods on the French left flank is still slow due to the terrain but the French troops will have to turn now but as there is no LOS a dice roll will have to be made. Lets hope they can turn quickly to shock the Austrian troops when they appear in their rear.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:30 pm 
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Yes, the cavalry was pretty much blown away. I felt that the loss of the 9 gun battery was worth it though. They wont be firing on me as I move around in my deployment area!

Turn 7 - This turn my troops on the left pulled back a bit more, more lights deployed, troops coming up from the rear.

This newer version of the scenario makes the Austrians have to fight forward more. In the old days we would hold the woods for awhile and then just fall back on the ridges where they bristled with guns! Was hard in those days for the French to win.

I think that this one might be the other way around. Its been one of the hardest scenarios to balance. I am really going to give it a good hard look again. I probably will remove the 100 pt. objective in Teugn and reduce the ridge 250 VP location to 100 as well.

Historically, it was a Draw. The better French troops failed to use their troop quality to press the Austrians back to Hausen. However, operationally it was a victory. Having also lost at Saalhaupt, Charles fell back. He detached too many forces before these battles and gave up the chance of victory (for this day) long before the first musket was fired.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:24 am 
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The situation for the French is not looking good. :frenchsad: As the units in the wood are out of LOS of the French center where the battle is at its worst (closest unit to the edge of the woods is 1 hex, 100 metres), I have thrown a dice for each Brigade. The first Brigade, 1B/3D/IIIC got a 1 so will not respond this turn, :frenchsad: the second Brigade, 3B/2D/IIIC got a 5 so will respond in 6 turns :thumbsup: and the third Brigade, 1B/2D/IIIC got a 4 so no response this turn. :frenchsad:

The French right flank is still heading southward and those pesky Austrian skirmishers are still causing problems. :displeased:

The French line has closed with the Austrian line and intends to hit hard. The reinforcements brought up by Davout has plugged the gap between the woods and the French center and should cause problems next turn unless Austrian reinforcements arrive. Davout is now leading the artillery reinforcements to the Buch Berg where they can deploy and cause problems for the Austrians. :revenge:


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:25 am 
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Mark and I just finished the first scenario using the Limited Reaction rules. Here is the complete log file of our game (see attached file). Rather than try and go over each move I will sum up the battle plan I had and the outcome:

Plan:

Realizing that the French would hit both flanks I split up my reserve division as it approached from the rear and as it deployed to each flank I ensured that the Div CO was still in command range of each Brigade leader. This worked well as this way I had force on each flank. I really cannot think of how else the Austrian can order his troops as he has one brigade in the center ....

I moved all of my reserve artillery (corps) to the center and placed them on the ridge. The effect was devastating as Mark's 4th Division and part of the 2nd were slaughtered. Add to it that the cavalry attacks blunted his advance a bit ...

Now as to the rules:

Because of my plan I did not have to move units "to the rescue." At no time was either flank seriously imperiled. The Center stood firm. (for the first time I used extended lines for the brigade in the center. It helped and I had few routs)

Thus I did not have to attempt die rolls to have my troops make any sudden changes to help out neighboring brigades.

I am going to add in a new rule for this next game for the Limited Reaction rule. Basically, if the neighboring brigade leaders do not have LOS on the action then there will be a delay. I also wish that command control distance were shortened by the woods. It was very hard for commanders to stay in touch with their units in a woods (even a wood lot) vs. open terrain.

I really enjoyed this game. Not only did I have to plan better so as to remove as much need for using the Limited Reaction rule but I also had to think like the men and commanders did. Was the action on the right something that the commander in the center could react to?

Yes, plans often fall apart once the action is joined but my vast experience in playing this scenario helped me much.

I also want to point out that the Defender player will have a harder time implementing the rules than the Attacker. Not only can defenses fall apart quickly in this series but it will be very hard to reinforce a crumbling flank unless .... you have RESERVES!! :frenchhappy: I highly recommend a local reserve behind each of the sections of a line.

Thanks Mark and looking forward to playing the next scenario - H15. The Battle of Teugn-Hausen and Saalhaupt!


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Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles and Panzer Campigns series - John Tiller Software


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:27 pm 
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Well this was a great battle in the end it was the Austrians who won but it was nearly different.

The basic plan was:
1/ To advance the French centre, capture the Buch Berg Heights and place my 2 artillery batteries on there to cause havoc with the Austrian centre, with a view to taking the Hausner Heights.

2/ To advance the French right flank to the left of the Buch Berg Heights and down through the woods to turn on the Austrian centre.

3/ To advance the French left flank through the woods and clear any enemy before them and once on the other side turn to fall on the Austrian centre.

The battle went to plan at first, then out of the blue, Austrian cavalry took out several companies of skirmishers and a full battery of guns. The threat was dealt with harshly and the advance continued but this allowed time for the Austrians to get their artillery into position. The advance came up against Austrian reinforcements and lots of artillery on the Hausner Heights and the French took an extreme battering causing a lot of units to rout. The 3 Brigades advancing through the woods on the left turned to help but the cause was lost. The French right came up against more Austrians and ended up routing and at first I thought Marshal Davout commander of III Corps was lost and lying dead or mortally wounded on the field, :frenchsad: but it seems he turned up in the thick of it, :frenchhappy: but it was no use and the French could not advance any further nor retreat without gaining heavy casualties, so I decided to throw in towel and admit defeat.

The battle was a success with the use of the Limited Reaction Rules and added a great deal of realism to the fight. The next battle should be great and with the use of orders, a level platform will be created so the game can be anyone's.

I will be taking a leaf out of Bill's book and keeping a record of the battle as well as of the orders.

I agree with Bill on the fact that reserves are needed, If I had more troops behind my front line it would have been very different (how many times have we all said that :frenchlol1: ). Luckily for the French, their Brigades were in close proximity to each other and within command range of Davout.

Really enjoyed the battle with Bill, a true gent with a lot of knowledge and great gamesmanship, Thanks Bill and I'm ready to win my sword back and yours. :frenchsalute:


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