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 Post subject: NWC rules
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:31 pm 
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Since I cannot access the NWC rules to find the answer to this question.

The web site pointing to NWC rules has been long gone for sometime.....it says "shoe week", with some great information about shoes on our club site.

I have pointed this out on other occasions and nothing has been done about it.

So.........could someone explain the rules regarding fight vs maneuver. Are the rules the same as the American Civil War Club?

Does a victor get credit for a victory when he competes in a "maneuver"?
According to the "status" report "maneuver" does not create a victory or defeat.
It only applies "OBD" points to the winner and loser of the contest with no victory or loss recorded.

Why do we even have a category called "maneuver"?

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:59 am 
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I know that victories (VP points) only count in "Fights" when you fight a member from the other side of the club.

A maneuver is a battle where you fight a member from the same side of the club.

For the longest time you had to play the side in a game that corresponded to your side in the club. Some time back that was waived. Now in a "Fight" you can play the Allied side if you are a French member and vice versa for us Allied members.

But yes, the Fight vs. Maneuver mentality persists because one of the goals of the club is to try and get members from opposite sides in the club to play in a Fight more often than in a Maneuver.

Its the concept of friendly competition at its best. Just like in the ACWGC where if you are a Union member its more rewarding to play a CSA member here in the NWC we like to see the French members play the Allied members.

I like to play Allied members too and the club allows for that.

Yes, it would be nice to see the Rules page corrected. Will this be done soon? I should send a note to Scott Ludwig about this. Probably on someone's list of things to do but it has yet to happen ...

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:00 am 
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thanks Bill

when adding a battle in the DOR, the system will not let you choose "fight" if opponents are of the same side.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:52 am 
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And that is correct, Clint, as that is what we call a Maneuver.

For me its not about the points - its about enjoying the games. I enjoy a good competitive game with a French member but I also enjoy playing the Allied members too.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:29 am 
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Bill Peters wrote:
And that is correct, Clint, as that is what we call a Maneuver.

For me its not about the points - its about enjoying the games. I enjoy a good competitive game with a French member but I also enjoy playing the Allied members too.


I agree........then there is really no reason to register a battle as a maneuver.

why bother going through the steps to register if the result is not recorded........that makes no sense to me.

points are given for participating......but between you and me, the points are meaningless.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:59 am 
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The distinction between fight and maneuver is an antiquated one and should be retired. Back in the day when the club had many more active members, and the armies competed vigorously on the battlefields and recording victories with glory, the distinction was more useful.

Now we are fewer, and just fighting a battle against any opponent regardless of sides should be enough to record a personal victory.

IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:29 pm 
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If we go that way we can close right away as we end up with barely a difference to other clubs like the Blitz for example.

I'm really not sure where the problem is at all, maneuvers yield OBD points, battles yield OBD & VP points.
If VP points matter so match one has to go and find an opponent from the other side, what isn't hard unless demanding ambitious optional rules. And if VP matter so much it shouldn't matter against whom I earn them as long as I earn them, and if the opponent doesn't matter one can play against the other side without a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Christian Hecht wrote:
If we go that way we can close right away as we end up with barely a difference to other clubs like the Blitz for example.

I'm really not sure where the problem is at all, maneuvers yield OBD points, battles yield OBD & VP points.
If VP points matter so match one has to go and find an opponent from the other side, what isn't hard unless demanding ambitious optional rules. And if VP matter so much it shouldn't matter against whom I earn them as long as I earn them, and if the opponent doesn't matter one can play against the other side without a problem.


The problem is........there is no point to maneuvers.....it limits your opponents as Sir Muddy stated.
I have found in my limited experience, compatible opponents are hard to find.

The rule is outdated and should be obsoleted. Why should the club be complicated with these stupid rules. The club is in trouble whether anyone realizes it and this rule should be changed to increase activity in the club.

You say "we end up barely a difference to other clubs" like that is a bad thing.

The blitz and other clubs have it the right way.......if you play an opponent........you keep score......someone wins and someone loses and the winner gets credit for a victory.

It is not a radical concept.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Clint Matthews wrote:
The problem is........there is no point to maneuvers.....it limits your opponents as Sir Muddy stated.

Well the same counts for battles as you can't battle vs someone on your own side, still you desperately want to to battles instead maneuvers and don't seem to mind that battles limit your possible opponents too.


Clint Matthews wrote:
I have found in my limited experience, compatible opponents are hard to find.

And yet you want to lower the bar to draw more people in, do you really think you will drawn any more opponents out of those newcomers?
It's exactly the wrong way as we have to raise the bar so that those that are in the club & joining the club are up to a challenging gameplay.


Clint Matthews wrote:
The rule is outdated and should be obsoleted.

These "outdated" and "obsoleted" rules work just fine at the ACWGC, didn't hear anyone complaining there and that is not because of the larger player base as the Rebels a rather cherry picking their battles, and still the ACWGC proceeds just fine.


Clint Matthews wrote:
Why should the club be complicated with these stupid rules.

Because what has been setup has to be endorsed and not condemned. Why do members lose rank & points when changing sides? Because it was decided that this is a special club were affinity matters, that this course is followed throughout the club & its rules is just the way it should be.
If someone isn't into it, there are still all the "normal" clubs, often they use ladders and one can get their "point bang" there much more easily.


Clint Matthews wrote:
The club is in trouble whether anyone realizes it and this rule should be changed to increase activity in the club.

True that we are in trouble but that has nothing to do with activity but with the fact that we didn't really advance since insanity left the club 4 years ago. There are a bunch of other ways to increase activity without lowering the niveau.


Clint Matthews wrote:
You say "we end up barely a difference to other clubs" like that is a bad thing.

Gee of course it is, if someone has the choice of joining us, a club narrowed to Napoleonic warfare or to join a club that covers all wars, who do you think people would join?
If we loose our unique characteristics we are done.


Clint Matthews wrote:
The blitz and other clubs have it the right way.......if you play an opponent........you keep score......someone wins and someone loses and the winner gets credit for a victory.

Yea but these clubs are just that, a point to find opponents and some ladders to see your standing, and that's it. Not to speak of the many people that were thrown out of them because they cheated as points seemed to be all that matter to them.
We are surely much more than just that.


Clint Matthews wrote:
It is not a radical concept.

No but a concept already used by enough clubs on a broader range, if we do the same the club will just be the little sibling with whom nobody wants to play and one day nobody will even notice that it's gone.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:34 pm 
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not worth discussing further.

as for me.........I will not record my games that are not battles.

end of story.........

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:51 am 
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Perhaps as a compromise we could have some sort of limitation on manuver games? Maybe one a quarter could be allowed for points.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:52 am 
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Sounds like emails need to be sent to HQ on this matter. I have gotten to the point where I can go no further in rank. And I could care less about points. I am 57 years old and I have no clue how many more years I will live to enjoy gaming. What matters more to me at this point is playing and enjoying the gaming than what rank I hold and how many points my OBD has.

This is getting more into a discussion of club politics and how the club should function a topic I just absolutely LOATHE now. In the past I would have championed a cause and gotten myself into hot water over HOW I handled myself. NOW I enjoy the gaming and who in the world will really care how many points we had when all is said and done? I mean what really matters to you guys in life?

Note: I have a dear friend that if you bring up the topic of politics (as in Republicans and Democrats) he gets terribly animated, gets hot, rants and raves. He is in his 70s and frankly I no longer will talk about that topic over the phone with him. I will not be the one that remembers our last conversation being where he collapses to the floor and his wife has to call 911 over a dumb conversation about politics.

Also: the MORE we demand of HQ the LESS they enjoy FREE time. That is still another reason why you wont hear me emailing to Scott Ludwig, my leader in the club, about having him do ANYTHING. The guy is swamped with real life things. Other than making a query about a webpage not working I wont ask him to dress up the Prussian army page, give us more ribbons, etc.

End of topic for me too. Once it got into the "Club Philosophy" realm I now will gracefully exit stage right that way ------------>

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:29 pm 
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@Blue Nemesis
I would rather like to see other things reinstated that do advance the club.
Why not make training games mandatory again and give VP to the trainers? As VPs are used for rewards and titles, one could earn them very well by contributing to the club.


@Bill Peters
If points don't matter I don't see a reason to change anything because you can play anyone in this club, the points don't keep you from it.

About HQ workload, true that we should neither depend on just very few men to run the club nor should these men be buried in work.
That is why every command position should do a little to spread the workload.
If you just got the right persons in such positions you can pull everything off, like discussing a whole new Union set of awards like it's currently done at the ACWGC with Petersburg.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:14 pm 
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I totally agree on the workload thing. When I was a brigade leader in the Prussian army I emailed my guys, played maneuver games with them or we got into a MP game together. Etc. Anything I could do to help them along.

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 Post subject: Re: NWC rules
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:58 pm 
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WRT the training battles no longer being required, my experience is that I become the trainer in some of the first battles these new members engage in when it is obvious they do not understand some of the basics. Most of us who have been around since the beginning take no pleasure in stomping a new guy into the mud, but tend to help them so they can learn the intricacies of the games and be competitive in the club, no matter which side they are on. I doubt I am alone in doing this...

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