Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
https://wargame.ch/board/nwc/

Changing Old Titles to the Ten Minute Turn.
https://wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16064		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Geoff McCarty [ Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changing Old Titles to the Ten Minute Turn.
I love talking about this stuff and getting a better sense of Napoleonic tactics and battlefield reality. I don't think every contentious point can be argued too much because even if either party doesn't agree at least they flesh out their own concepts better.

Simple things like how men fought using either 2 or 3 rank line volleys and in what order the elements fired is very important to a tactical game system. If the 2 rank system had ~67% the firepower per frontage area than the 3 rank system as I claim than an opposite ruleset would be deeply flawed. All the French officers would have read the 60s manual and the 90s. I don't think there were any further firing regulation changes. The 1808 and '12 regulations deal with organization and formation changes only. I don't know though because naturally the US is full of hobbiest/enthusiast shills trying to get published rather than actual historical analysts (preferably with related military experience) willing to read and translate contemporary documents and accounts. So, I read what documentation I can find and make assumptions based on my own instincts as a former soldier.

>It's just common sense that men within musket shot are going to be active in returning fire in some way really.
What this means is not by regulation but, by presense alone men are going to try and kill those who are threatening their lives and killing their comrades. Despite regulations cavalrymen would break formation to hack up sharpshooters for instance. A third rank as casualty filing and possible redeployable reserve is a valid tactic. I doubt men would appreciate seeing others dieing before and beside them while standing one pace behind the firing line though.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changing Old Titles to the Ten Minute Turn.
Just wish the thread would stay "On Topic." This was Jeff's thread asking how to do something and its become something entirely different.

Maybe start a new thread in the future if you are going to take it off topic. :thumbsup:
Author:  Geoff McCarty [ Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changing Old Titles to the Ten Minute Turn.
Hehe, yeah we're a little off base. I could reiterate my last statement concerning the 10/15 minute turns. If their firepower quotients are balanced for either than why aren't they different due to the scale of time. The 15 minute musket fire should be 1.5x higher than 10 minute musket value. Likewise the unit type movement rates should be 150% while the MP costs remain the same. 10 minute values aren't perfect but the original Waterloo parameters are just awful. If firepower and movement rates were corrected than 15min would be playable. Anything higher probably would require a scaling difference but, would be possible (with house rules) and offer greater operational atmosphere.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changing Old Titles to the Ten Minute Turn.
Sorry Bill, if Geoff wants to discuss this further he should open a new thread and we could go on.
Just as a last point some post from napoleon-series.org:
http://www.napoleon-series.org/cgi-bin/ ... ;id=186401
Author:  Bill Peters [ Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Changing Old Titles to the Ten Minute Turn.
Geoff McCarty wrote:
Hehe, yeah we're a little off base. I could reiterate my last statement concerning the 10/15 minute turns. If their firepower quotients are balanced for either than why aren't they different due to the scale of time. The 15 minute musket fire should be 1.5x higher than 10 minute musket value. Likewise the unit type movement rates should be 150% while the MP costs remain the same. 10 minute values aren't perfect but the original Waterloo parameters are just awful. If firepower and movement rates were corrected than 15min would be playable. Anything higher probably would require a scaling difference but, would be possible (with house rules) and offer greater operational atmosphere.


LOL Geoff .. I have been guilty of it in the past too.

On the firepower angle - actually I would like to reduce the fire values of the infantry by 1/3 if anything for the 10 min. turns. We see a lot more losses in the 10 min. turn format than in the 15 min. format. Melee losses are too high too where it regards cavalry vs. cavalry.

Onwards and upwards ...
Author:  Jeff Mathes [ Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changing Old Titles to the Ten Minute Turn.
Bill, I hope you are making some progress on converting the Waterloo game to the 10 minute turn option. Ed and I are already on turn 55 of our second Four Nations face-off and I hope to entice him into a Waterloo Campaign game after we finish.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changing Old Titles to the Ten Minute Turn.
Not sure but I think Bill won't work on other designers work, I think he wanted to do his 2 first titles Wargram & Eckmühl.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Changing Old Titles to the Ten Minute Turn.
Hi guys - yes, Christian is right. Unless I was paid to do the work to upgrade Waterloo "right and proper" I wont be doing anything to the title. Its not a case of being a jerk - its a matter of time .. I dont have much time on my hands and my health is always brittle as far as the amount of hours I can spend working on the games anyway.

I had wanted to upgrade the entire Belgium map to be just like what you get with the Fleurus map in RBR but its not going to happen I think. Warren Bajan was working on redoing the OB and scenarios but alas he is gone and his good friend, John Egan, and I took a look at it but its not going far. I would want to completely redesign the scenarios if I took a crack at it.

To convert the scenarios its not really that hard... just take the turns and multiply by 1.5. So a 60 turn scenario is 90 turns. 40 becomes 60. Etc

You really dont even need to change the reinforcement times if you dont want to. A group arriving at 1:00pm still shows up at that time. One at 1:15pm comes on at 1:20pm.

You only have to use the correct PDT file entries. My PDT file document explains which values are for the time. The MP rates and costs would have to be changed too.

Tip: copy one of the my PDT Files for the 10 min. format. Then copy the weather lines from the Waterloo PDT files and replace the ones in mine with those. Then change the times to be in the 10 min. format. You have to add in some lines. Its not really that hard. My document details the values.

Lots of folks in this club that know how to do it. I know that Rich H. wont have time to do it. I am now working on THREE games at this time so figure that odds ;) Once CEF releases it drops to two but I will then kick in with map editor work for a third game and figure that Napoleonics is on the backburner from here on out if I want to make a living at this work.

Note: loving the team atmosphere we have in the WDS. Mike Avanzini is working on two very large OBs for a game we are working on. Its nice to not have to build those anymore. I work on maps, scenarios, research the setups, etc. Mike has a lot of source map material on the troop placement too. Honestly its a no-brainer for me. Good thing too as the scenario editor work is very intensive for the Panzer series.

Wish I could help but its onward and upward from here on out. 20 years of Napoleonic work coming to an end once I get a few things done for the older Nap games I did. Like I have said .. its been a good ride but its time to mount a new "steed" and visit new battlefields.
Page 2 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/