Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Gentlemen
Any body who knows me from my previous posts on this Board knows that I am mild mannered and uncontiversal type, BUT it is perhaps time for a Taboo subject should be discussed.
Noooooooooooooo not incest, necrophilia or bestiality as we are a very tolerant Club.
CHEATING
What forms can it take and how can it be detected!
We are not talking “Gamieâ€

I will never believe that any of my opponents do any of these things. Therefore, this is a non-issue to me.

<center>Général de Division D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
Baron d'Empire, Duc des Pyramides
Commandant de la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3ème Division[/url], VIème Corps Bavarois, L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant l'Ecole de Mars, L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant de la Brigade de Tirailleurs de la Jeune Garde
</center>

I suck enough on my own so if you have to cheat agaisnt me to get a win.You must really suck!!

Ensign Eric Karcher
3rd Line KGL, 1st Brigade KGL/4th Division /2nd. Corps

Why cheat... ???


What do you gain ?

Marechal John Corbin
Chief of Staff
La Grande Armee

John,
I've wondered that often myself. What is sad is not so much the cheating, but the excuses you get. I used to play the game Stars!, and at one point, some people figured out a way to cheat by using an editor on certain files. It would give them an immense advantage (Imagine turning the entire French Army at Borodino into the Old Guard, *and* giving them fanatic morale... that gets you the idea)

Anyway, when it got out,the astounding (and troubling) thing was the number of people that jumped in to "defend" them. the ones that said "they aren't doing anything wrong, they are just thinking 'outside the box'"

No, thinking outside the box is laying a cunning trap for the enemy. But, they couldn't see the difference.

FML Gary McClellan
1st Jäger Bn
Chief of Staff Imperial Austrian Army

What I wonder is ... whence the idea that people in *this* club are cheating?

<center>Général de Division D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
Baron d'Empire, Duc des Pyramides
Commandant de la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3ème Division[/url], VIème Corps Bavarois, L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant l'Ecole de Mars, L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant de la Brigade de Tirailleurs de la Jeune Garde
</center>

Dierk: Agreed, in all my games in this club (and indeed, across all of them), I've not felt once that there was anything at all "fishy".

FML Gary McClellan
1st Jäger Bn
Chief of Staff Imperial Austrian Army

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by D.S. Walter</i>
<br />I will never believe that any of my opponents do any of these things. Therefore, this is a non-issue to me.

<center>Général de Division D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
Baron d'Empire, Duc des Pyramides
Commandant de la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3ème Division[/url], VIème Corps Bavarois, L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant l'Ecole de Mars, L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant de la Brigade de Tirailleurs de la Jeune Garde
</center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I agree Dierk. Even if I was to peek or anything in our game, you still would cream me, so it serves no purpose. [:D] Plus my respect for you is too great. [|)]

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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>Generallieutenant Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



GroßHerzog von Saxe-Weimar
(Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Eric Karcher</i>
<br />I suck enough on my own so if you have to cheat agaisnt me to get a win.You must really suck!!

Ensign Eric Karcher
3rd Line KGL, 1st Brigade KGL/4th Division /2nd. Corps
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Lol..no one sucks as bad as I do. [:D] Maybe we should do a manuever to find out. [:p]

<center>
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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>Generallieutenant Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



GroßHerzog von Saxe-Weimar
(Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

In 6 1/2 years in this club and 6 years in the ACWGC I've never suspected any of my opponents of cheating, ever. I think you soon form an opinion as to the integrity of your opponents and I've only encountered really good people. Cheating could theoretically happen of course but I doubt it really is an issue in this club because the large number of honest players with longstanding good reputations set the tone for the club as a whole.

<font color="gold">Major Antony Barlow
CO, 2nd British (Union) Brigade, Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps.
Guards: 4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards.</font id="gold">

I think this is a NON-ISSUE. I know of games that have been made completely unplayable due to cheating PROGRAMS.

But, I do not think that is going on here.

It is such a no win, massive amount of time and effort to do the cheating, that I have never seen it being worth it for any opponent.

That said, it doesn't mean that cheating MIGHT happen, but that it doesn't really do any good. The cheater doesn't gain so much of an advantage that it really matters in a 30 or a 50 or a 100 turn battle.

So, I play and do not even think about someone cheating. I don't expect it to happen.

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
GdB,1er Brig,1eme Div,VI Corps,AdR
President, Colonial Campaign Club
</b></font id="gold">

Jim

A good and, dare I say, brave call to bring this out into the open.

I have had fellow officers over the years present me with files from players who they believe may have been manipulating the game to achieve a favourable outcome - ok, that's my fancy way of saying cheating.

One such file showed a highly unusual sequence of firing units. Such that the artillery never seemed to miss. A calcualtion of the probability of such an outcome, from a statistically valid number of consecutive artillery shots was improbably low. The opponent of the officer who sent me this file was either intentionally sequencing his fire to achieve the best possible outcome for his artillery, or he was so lucky I want him to select my lottery numbers.


Some of the points you raise can be detected, some quite easily, some require so much effort that it is probably not worth the trouble. I'll send you an email with more detailed answers to some of your questions as I am not sure that they should be put on the forum.

The one thing I can think that is missing from your list is defensive phase movement using the keypad - not sure if this applies to HPS. Not really a cheat as such, but I think it is spelled out that it is not accepted practice in the club.

But other than that I think your list pretty well covers it

Mark
VII Corps

Forgot to say that NO, I definitely don't think that cheating is endemic in this club, and certainly wouldn't be here if I thought that it was.

I have only had one person do it to me here that I can remember...he mopped my frogs up like they were nailed to the ground. We played that scenario and I never played him again. And I note he wasn't a member of the club much longer after that...

Now, with the weather feature added in, if the pdt file is changed during mid game and the weather entries aren't the exact same it will hose things up pretty bad, so it will be very obvious something fishy is going on.

Gen. Hamilton, Baron d'Barbancon
21st Division
VII Corps, ADR

Saxon Leib-Garde, de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale

How do you change a pdt file?

Gentlemen

Over 100 hits in 12 hours more than even Marchal Nowacki normally inflicts on me[:D]

Yes Endemic was totally over the top but it did grab the attention[;)]

From comments I have received over the last few months there does appear to be an increase debatable play.

Although to many Officers this is a "none issue" I feel it helps to clear the air occasionally.

Field Marshal Sir "Lucky" Jim (K.G.)
Commander
Divisie Nederlandsche Kavallerie, 1st. Corps
Allied/Dutch Army

"And let my sword not sleep in my hand"