Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

I am not sure if this has been done before, but I thought since we have a thread like it over in the ACWGC of sorts, it might be good to see a thread here. Who would you say was Napoleon's best Marshal? For me there is no doubt that Marshal Davout was his best. In fact if given the chance I think he could have rivaled Napoleon in some cases.

Maréchal Tony R.Malone, Comte d'Auvergne et Duc de Vauchamps: Division d'Infanterie de la Moyenne Garde; CDR III Corps Armee Du Nord
"The Guard may die, But it never surrenders".

Hi Tony.
Maréchal Davoust,to me was the best,out of all Nappys Maréchals,But maybe not the most liked,[;)]

<font color="red">Marechal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red"> Commandant
1ème Division de Cuirassiers,
1 Corps Res Cav,ADN.

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

I guess each of them had their own strong suits (e.g. Ney was arguably unrivalled in rearguard actions) ... but based on the "overall package", I would say that the finalists would be:

Davout
Lannes
Massena
Suchet
Soult

Each one of them was able operate competently with independence as it related to strategy, tactics, administration, etc. Each one also had their own flaws.

It is very sad for Napoleon that Lannes' career was cut short, as he was possibly the most improved marshal over the period of 1804-1809, and had not even come close to his full potential.

All in all, I would pick Davout and/or Massena, although I would edge towards Davout by sheer virtue of his consistency, relative "youth", and unswerving loyalty.

Lt. Tim Cavallin, AdR

Yes Davout (my favorite as I'm comte de Davout) is the best one. Lannes is just after.
I dislike Massena because of his lack of honesty [:(]. Soult was silly [:0]. Suchet was inconsistant (sorry to Chuck)[B)].

Regards

General de Brigade Lamezec
Comte de Davout
CO 2ème division de cavalerie légère
ADN2

I have to pick Davout as well. He wasn't called the Iron Marshal for nothing.

<center>Lieutenant Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord</center>

<b>Who would you say was Napoleon's best Marshal? </b>

I would say Davout, with Massena a close second. Lannes would probably rank as third.


Of course you probably have to put Berthier in a class all by himself since he was not a good field commander but the best administrator that Napy possessed...

The fact that the French had none of these men on the field at Waterloo probably had a great deal to do with Napoleon's defeat.




Feldmarschall-Leutnant Philip Roubaud
Kommandant
Vienna Militärakademie
Imperial Armee of Austria

I like Lannes and Davout myself....

<center>
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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>Generallieutenant Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



GroßHerzog von Saxe-Weimar
(Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

While I disagree with Phil on Massena, I think Suchet was better over all as well as Lannes, I think he is right on Napoleon making a mistake by not having these men at Waterloo (exception Lannes who we know was dead, and Berthier who also was dead not to long before.) Now I know most refused to rally to Napoleon, Davout did, and I am sure he would have made a difference at Waterloo, especialy if he had been at Quartra Bras, or at Ligny and the pursuit after the battle. I also think Soult would have been better off in Ney's position at Waterloo, and Ney in say a Corps command, maybe at Hougomount. Excuse my spellings [8]

Maréchal Tony R.Malone, Comte d'Auvergne et Duc de Vauchamps: Division d'Infanterie de la Moyenne Garde; CDR III Corps Armee Du Nord
"The Guard may die, But it never surrenders".

Mssrs.,

My personal favorite is Massena, not least because he was an unvarnished rogue[:p]. After all, you have to admire a man that delayed the start of a battle (Bussaco) until he found suitable lodgings for his mistress[:D].

Kidding aside, it should not be forgotten that the "Dear child of Victory" earned his spurs at Loano in '95 as a <i>General de Division</i> while Le Tondu was still a mere brigadier. In 1799 Andre was commanding the Army of Switzerland vs. Suvarov, <i>et al.</i>, while Davout was a junior officer in Egypt[8D].

Sadly, although Napoleon gave Massena his baton upon becoming Emperor, Andre was put out to pasture until the 1809 Campaign, mayhaps because Napoleon had tired of his notoriously sticky fingers. Nonetheless, along with Davout, Massena proved to be one of the pillars of the French victories in the 1809 Campaign. His 1810 invasion of Portugal foundered on the Lines of Torres Vedras, but it was a hopeless mission and he nonetheless nearly surprised and defeated Wellington at Fuentes de Onoro in 1811. Wellington paid him the ultimate compliment in later years when he recounted that of all the French generals (Napoleon included) Massena was the only one that caused him to "sleep uneasy" before a battle.[8D]

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Comte de Marseille
Duc d'Abrantes</i>

One thing about Nap's marshals that is hard to figure, is the question of independent command. Other than those who happened to be in Spain at any given moment, there aren't alot of opportunities to judge them in that respect.

I think it is interesting to note who Napoleon tended to give independent commands to. One assumes those are the people he has the most trust in their ability. Soult, Massena and Davout are easy to understand. Victor and Jourdan a bit harder.

FML Gary McClellan
Generalissimus
Imperial Austrian Army

I would rank Davout & Lannes 1st, then Soult, Masséna & Victor.

Berthier holds indeed a place apart, as he is renowned for his outstanding organisational & administrative skills rather than for his ability to CiC.

I would also like to make a comment reagrding various posts about Masséna obvious propention to plunder: Most of high ranking commanders of the Napoleonic area where known for building/upgrading their own wealth through pillaging & plundering.
To speak only about the french, Masséna did no more no less what most of his "colleagues" did: Soult, from Napoléon's own words, should have been executed as an exemple to the others', while Vandamme never got his bâton de maréchal due to his bad reputation. examples are many.[:D]


Guillaume AYMONIER-AMELINE
Comte de Strasbourg
Duc de Ratisbonne

Maréchal de France

1er Rgt de Grenadiers à Cheval
VIEILLE GARDE

1ère Brig./ 3ème Div° Cavalerie Légère
IIIeme Corps d'Armée
AdN

Sirs,

I pick Davout; the only Marshal who never lost a battle!

However, Massena does earn my respect for sheer brazeness.

Massena earned his reputation as a plunderer over many years of sincere and sustained effort. The fact is that he is known for it, rather than others who are not (perhaps they were ever so slightly more subtle than the man who, it is said, single handedly impoverished northern Italy!)

To be fair, the French armies travelled by plunder; Massena was not on his own.

Colonel Mark Oakford
III Corps, ADN

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mark Oakford</i>
To be fair, the French armies travelled by plunder; Massena was not on his own.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Ouch[B)][B)]

So plundering was exclusive to the French was it [:0][xx(][:(!]

Regards

Mark
VII Corps

Guillaume AYMONIER-AMELINE Comte de Strasbourg Duc de Ratisbonne
Maréchal de France
I am curious, Why you would have Victor up there so high? I would think StCry, or even McDonald would rank above Victor.

Maréchal Tony R.Malone, Comte d'Auvergne et Duc de Vauchamps: Division d'Infanterie de la Moyenne Garde; CDR III Corps Armee Du Nord
"The Guard may die, But it never surrenders".

Personally, I like Lannes. Unfortunately we will never know to what heights he might have risen. Perhaps he'd have become another Ney, bold and daring, but independently not so good. Who knows. The other I like, who I am surprised has not been mentioned, is Murat. He was just as dashing and daring as Lannes and Ney, and he did command competantly when independent of Napoleon.

Cadet William Davis
Royal Military Academy