Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

I always thought that in the HPS games in order to achieve a complete capture in a melee ("ZOC kill"), you had to have a ZOC on the front hexes and units in the rear hexes of the target.

However, this just happened to in a Smolensk game of NRC. I meleed a large stack of cavalry from the flank. Just to get it out of the way, because I saw no way to set it up for a ZOC kill. There was a ZOC all around the stack, as far as I can say, but there were friendlies in both rear hexes--one regiment of cavalry, one battalion of infantry. Still, the stack was eliminated completely when it lost the melee.

This puzzled me and I next thought of an overstacking kill. But the stack was just around 800 cavalry so it should have fit into a hex with 3?? infantry. And if not, then the fact that it was composed of I believe seven individual squadrons should have some of them. Yet they were all eliminated.

It's not the first instance that I have seen a ZOC kill where I thought there shouldn't have been one, but it was never so obvious. Is there more to the ZOC kill concept than I know?

Not that I am complaining about the result ... it yielded a nice 250 VP. But I'd like to understand what happened. [:I]

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Général de Division D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
Baron d'Empire, Duc des Pyramides
Commandant de la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3ème Division[/url], VIème Corps Bavarois, L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/EdM_start.htm"]L'Ecole de Mars[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant de la Brigade de Tirailleurs de la Jeune Garde
</center>

Was the partial retreat option on or off (do they have the partial retreat option in the HPS games?).

Might be worth checking

Mark

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mark Eason</i>
<br />Was the partial retreat option on or off (do they have the partial retreat option in the HPS games?).

Might be worth checking

Mark
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

OFF. But I always thought it applied only to individual units, not to stacks. I.e. without this rule a unit either can fit into the hex or it cannot, and is then eliminated. With this rule, it loses so many men that it can fit into the retreat hex.

In any case, I am almost certain the whole stack should have fit into the hex with the single battalion. Counting cavalry double, still. No, I am almost sure this was not an overstacking kill.

<center>
Général de Division D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
Baron d'Empire, Duc des Pyramides
Commandant de la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3ème Division[/url], VIème Corps Bavarois, L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/EdM_start.htm"]L'Ecole de Mars[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant de la Brigade de Tirailleurs de la Jeune Garde
</center>

Dierk,

The reason is really partial retreats optional rule. But not the number of men was important here. We have 8 ****ers per hex limit and the stack consisted of 8 squadrons (Hosh! 8 fresh squadrons![}:)]). So if they retreated backwards there would be 9 or 10 counters in a hex which is too much. So....[V]

With partial retreats ON this would be executed this way: only seven squadrons retreat to the hex with one counter. Then a check is made and all the men exceeding stacking limitations are left as well. Not 250 but quite enough VPs anyway.

BTW it was a great move! A couple more in such a way and I'll seriously worry about our major victory[;)]

<center></center>
<center><b>Eyo Imperatorskogo Velichestva Leib-Kirassirskogo polku
General-Mayor Anton Valeryevich Kosyanenko
commander of Little Russian grenadiers regiment</b></center>

Yes, I think you're right. That must be the solution.

But then it really seems to apply to stacks, not units.

<center>
Général de Division D.S. "Green Horse" Walter
Baron d'Empire, Duc des Pyramides
Commandant de la [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/3_VI_AdR_Home.htm"]3ème Division[/url], VIème Corps Bavarois, L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant [url="http://home.arcor.de/dierk_Walter/NWC/EdM_start.htm"]L'Ecole de Mars[/url], L'Armée du Rhin
Commandant de la Brigade de Tirailleurs de la Jeune Garde
</center>

I plan on putting up a webpage diagramming all of the various things about the ZOCs in the game.

It will show different instances where friendly units are adjacent and when they are not. When the Partial Retreat rule is ON or OFF.

Will do the same for the ACW and EAW system as well as the Panzer/Modern Campaigns system.

Explanations for each case will inform the gamer when they can or cannot expect to eliminate units on a successful melee.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army
[url="http://www.acwgc.org/acwgc_members/burr/Austrian%20Army/Bill_Peters.htm"]Officer Battle Dossier[/url]

Anton! What have you done with the cavalry?![:0]

Generalissimo
Opolchenie Korpus
Russian Army