Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Gents of all armies.

I bring news of great joy to all....

I have taken the plunge and decided to create a new Game Records site for the club to use. Development is in the early stages and I will keep you posted on details as they progress.

I want to make clear that I am doing this to help reduce some of the manual work that currently goes on now in running armies etc... It is not meant to be, and should not be seen as, criticism of any work that is now currently going on by members of this great club.

Everyone goes to great lengths to keep this club running and they are to be commended.

The site is a login type of site ( username/password ) and will permit various actions to all army officers:

Update Personal Information
Register End Game Report
Register New single Game
Reports
Register New Multiplayer Game
Vote

Army commanders and their Chief of Staffs have a few more functiosn:

Add New Officer
Deactivate Officer
Reactivate officer
Approve Promotions to General Ranks

There are several databases involved.

I will be hosting and providing the upkeep on this site.

I have details to work out still but am confident of success.

More details as they become available



Monsieur le Marechal John Corbin
Chief of Staff
La Grande Armee

John,

Though your intentions are well I have no doubt, I personally don't agree with having an auto-system in this club as I feel the Commanders and Staff with loose the autonomy over their armies. I personally like being able to work on the stuff myself and I can tell you from being an army commander in the ACWGC an auto-system takes away all control you have on information in your army and general control too. A BIG reason why I am on furlough over there. Also what will Geert do??

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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>General der Infanterie Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



Prinz von Saxe-Weimar
(Prince of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

Oh John, I'm not being harsh at you, I just hate the idea of an auto-system. I know you mean well. Don't take it the wrong way.

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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>General der Infanterie Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



Prinz von Saxe-Weimar
(Prince of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by SLudwig</i>
<br />John,

Though your intentions are well I have no doubt, I personally don't agree with having an auto-system in this club as I feel the Commanders and Staff with loose the autonomy over their armies. I personally like being able to work on the stuff myself and I can tell you from being an army commander in the ACWGC an auto-system takes away all control you have on information in your army and general control too. A BIG reason why I am on furlough over there. Also what will Geert do??

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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>General der Infanterie Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



Prinz von Saxe-Weimar
(Prince of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Anyone else feel this way ?

I had not considerd the "loss of control" issue that Scott has raised....

Monsieur le Marechal John Corbin
Chief of Staff
La Grande Armee

Maybe I do not understand what is meant by auto-system ?



Monsieur le Marechal John Corbin
Chief of Staff
La Grande Armee

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by John Corbin</i>
<br />Maybe I do not understand what is meant by auto-system ?



Monsieur le Marechal John Corbin
Chief of Staff
La Grande Armee
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Just a name for it John, kinda like what it is called at the ACWGC.

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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>General der Infanterie Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



Prinz von Saxe-Weimar
(Prince of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

It seems nice to me...

The Army commander doesn't seem to loose controle over his army.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Army commanders and their Chief of Staffs have a few more functions:

Add New Officer
Deactivate Officer
Reactivate officer
Approve Promotions to General Ranks<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I like it. [:)]

Maybe we could vote on it?

<font color="green"> <b>Général de Division David Guégan Comte de Toulon, Duc de Nimes</b>
Co 11eme division
III Corps, AdN
Co Division d'Infanterie de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale


http://home.earthlink.net/~davidguegan/</font id="green">

John, I happen to think it's a great idea (provided it works). Scott is right in his observations, however I think he/you will also appreciate that there tend to be only a few people (such as your good selves) that do more than their fair share of the work. Anything that relieves the workload off these people is desirable. Geert's duties for example are pretty time intensive and I think it's a credit to him that he's been able to sustain the commitment.

John, I'm pretty clueless about coding, but I love the challenge and learning experience of these sorts of things. If ever you'd like to discuss what you're doing or delegate some work, give me a shout. Can it be done without coding?

<font color="orange">Majoor Peter Robinson
Commander I Corps
[url="http://www.geocities.com/militaireacademie"]Koninklijke Militaire Academie[/url] Adjutant
3rd (Prince of Wales's) Dragoon Guards</font id="orange">

In referance to the comments... Which I am not making lite of

How about a scaled down version [?]

Allows for registering of new games and reporting end games.

The system would email the parties concerned [?]

This would aleviate concerns about loss of control and still be very useful ? Army commanders etc would still be able to handle promotions tc from there own point of view.

The one function that I thought might be very usefull is a vote option. When we have elections or need to vote on something we can use this.

Specific to Pete...

Pete.. Eventually I will need info from the various armies ( ranks, names, points etc ) to load the database...

Monsieur le Marechal John Corbin
Chief of Staff
La Grande Armee

I disagree with Scott about a loss of control with any automatic system of administration.

I think you have to look at the whole picture, which includes the administration of all aspects of the club.

To be effective as an auto system, it allows for reduced manual manipulation of the various factors that make up an individuals role in the club and what John has described makes sense. Right now the admin data is in the hands of one person and that is great. He does an excellent job; it is NOT an easy task and is time consuming to do. But, what happens when (for whatever reason) the data keeper retires from the club or just from the data entry job? We find someone else to do it, right? It is not always that easy.

So, Scott thinks that there will be a loss of Commanders control, well this would be the time to give suggestions on HOW to incorporate Commanders control and WHERE this control needs to be. You list what the Commanders control, at the present, then what they SHOULD continue to control in the future and add those elements into the MIX that is being developed. Perhaps, one thibg that Commanders MIGHT want to keep control of is promotions, in all ranks. So, perhaps a method could be built in that NOTIFIES the Commander(s)that Lt XYZ is eligible to be promoted to Captain. The Commanders would simply continue with whatever method they now use to effect the promotion. Perhaps they make an announcement, notify the new Captain and his commanders AND then make the promotion on the new DATEBASE. The Commanders would do this on each promotion.

An automatic data system seems to be able to combine the best of both worlds, easier entries, more detailed reports and allow for Commanders to exercise their perogatives in the traditional manner.

I have NO idea of how John intends to implement his system. I don't know what the basis of the data retention will be, but I am sure there are choices to be made and solutions to be found and accomodations that can be made to make a system, easy, effective, timely, accurate and less labor intensive.

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
GdB,1er Brig,1eme Div,VI Corps,AdR
President, Colonial Campaign Club
</b></font id="gold">

as to how things might ber done in my new system:

as an example:

Promotions ( at least in the French Army ) are atuomatic upto and including the rank of Colonel. Once a player reachs the point of going to the General ranks ( General de Brigade ) He is notified ( along with the required army command staff ) that he is eleigble for
the promotion but it must be approved by the powers tht be. The reason for teh approval is that the Club rules say it has to be approved.

The new system would work like this:

Lt. XYZ get the points for Captian. He is notified that he is now a Captain and his relevant army commanders are notified.

Colonel ABC gets the points for General de Brigade. He is notified via email. His Army CiC is alos notified via email. The army CiC logs into the system and approves the promotion or denies it as the case may be.

The system is database driven so all data is stored in databases.


Monsieur le Marechal John Corbin
Chief of Staff
La Grande Armee

A basic restructre of the .php forms with the e-mails of those concerned is all that is needed. We use it at the 1NWCG a group of us get the submissions whom handle the work. It's how it works here too and then it gets passed off as needed.

If there is a way to get it so when an option of the unit the person belongs to is chosen, then it e-mails their chain of command only that would be best and could replace the current forms. Basically I don't want stuff from other armies just my own. So if saving time is what is being asked for if it can be coded that way great!!

The vote things I don't mind, though I think what we just had worked fine too.

I don't agree with and complete automatic system, or one that is like the ACWGC. If you wanna have a database that lists names, ranks and e-mails and unit assignments that's fine. I don't like it when it tracks points or automatically promotes people.

But in all I think our system right now is not too bad off.

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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>General der Infanterie Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



Prinz von Saxe-Weimar
(Prince of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ernie Sands</i>
<br />To be effective as an auto system, it allows for reduced manual manipulation of the various factors that make up an individuals role in the club and what John has described makes sense. Right now the admin data is in the hands of one person and that is great. He does an excellent job; it is NOT an easy task and is time consuming to do. But, what happens when (for whatever reason) the data keeper retires from the club or just from the data entry job? We find someone else to do it, right? It is not always that easy.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I hate to say it Ernie you are wrong. Geert handles the registration of games and points assesed by them, that is it. All promotions, monthly points, unit assignments etc are handled at the localized level. The admin data is not in the hands of one person it is in the hands of about 10 of us or even more.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Ernie Sands</i>
<br />So, Scott thinks that there will be a loss of Commanders control, well this would be the time to give suggestions on HOW to incorporate Commanders control and WHERE this control needs to be. You list what the Commanders control, at the present, then what they SHOULD continue to control in the future and add those elements into the MIX that is being developed. Perhaps, one thibg that Commanders MIGHT want to keep control of is promotions, in all ranks. So, perhaps a method could be built in that NOTIFIES the Commander(s)that Lt XYZ is eligible to be promoted to Captain. The Commanders would simply continue with whatever method they now use to effect the promotion. Perhaps they make an announcement, notify the new Captain and his commanders AND then make the promotion on the new DATEBASE. The Commanders would do this on each promotion.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The only thing I would want to see this system do is register and end games and send out the points associated with the games to the proper commanders, that is it. Nothing more or less.

Basically I don't agree with having all club data in one central location for the sake of if it crashes, or data is lost, or heaven forbid someone losses their nerve and pulls the whole thing down, then all club data is lost. But then you need a backup system and that just creates more work and duplicates what is actually needed.

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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>General der Infanterie Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



Prinz von Saxe-Weimar
(Prince of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by John Corbin</i>
<br />as to how things might ber done in my new system:

as an example:

Promotions ( at least in the French Army ) are atuomatic upto and including the rank of Colonel. Once a player reachs the point of going to the General ranks ( General de Brigade ) He is notified ( along with the required army command staff ) that he is eleigble for
the promotion but it must be approved by the powers tht be. The reason for teh approval is that the Club rules say it has to be approved.

The new system would work like this:

Lt. XYZ get the points for Captian. He is notified that he is now a Captain and his relevant army commanders are notified.

Colonel ABC gets the points for General de Brigade. He is notified via email. His Army CiC is alos notified via email. The army CiC logs into the system and approves the promotion or denies it as the case may be.

The system is database driven so all data is stored in databases.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You will have to talior the system to every armies needs, because each army operates differently. I know us Prussians do not work the way you described above 100%.


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[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>General der Infanterie Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



Prinz von Saxe-Weimar
(Prince of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

I am dropping this idea...





Monsieur le Marechal John Corbin
Chief of Staff
La Grande Armee