Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Gentlemen,
I feel we should include Crown of Glory in the club ladder.
This game is great. Far from being technically perfect, but very fun to play.
If we come to agree on it, we should think about a way to convert Crown of Glory Victory points into NWC battle points.

yours


Austrian Army
6th husaren Blankenstein
finally figured out how to have the signature inserted in the post

Stephane,

Great suggestion. Since it just came out, we will have to see how adaptable it is.

While we have primarily focused on tactical games, I personally see no reason to exclude strategic games from the list of those authorized. CoG is not the only game of this kind that should explored. After all, we are a Napoleonic club, so any good Napoleonic game that we can develop an appropriate scoring system for should be considered.

Regards,
Jeff

I have made this one a Sticky.

Here is my SUGGESTION on how this should proceed.

Stephane - would you take the lead on this and get feedback from the guys in the club that are playing this game? Find out if the game is still crashing even after the first patch came out?

Here are some other tasks for you if you would like to take them on:

1. Visit the Matrix site for us. Let us know when patches are released and what effect they had on your game(s).

2. Organize a small group of guys to discuss the points system you would use. As we all know this game has a Glory Points system. There is no Major Victory but there is a Major Victor! Would you take this task and help us figure out how to score the game?

We should wait at least one more month before we accept the game. Lets give the game some time to mature. Its been buggy from the start. Also its a new region for the club - lets do this the right way.

I am for this game being added in. Who else will volunteer to help out? I am swamped with work and cant get involved. My vote is cast: unless the game crashes alot I will also want to see it added. We need to figure on a way to do a New Game form for it as well as the End Game form.

Each player is on his own side.

Each player gets Glory Points and thus there are 8 total places they can take (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc).

Another game that comes to mind that should qualify in this category will be Empires in Arms. Stephane, if you will do the initial club work on this game (CoG) then when EiA comes out we already will have a working model with which to use for that one.

If anyone is opposed to this game please speak up. We want to hear your objections (if there are any). Maybe you can point something out that we missed.

Not only do we want to hear from the "voices for change" but also for those that are for "careful change" or "no change."

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army
[url="http://www.acwgc.org/acwgc_members/burr/Austrian%20Army/Bill_Peters.htm"]Officer Battle Dossier[/url]

If I ever get money to get the game I offer up my services. [:D]

<center>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>General der Infanterie Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

Kommandeur
3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

Kommandeur
Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]



Prinz von Saxe-Weimar
(Prince of Saxe-Weimar)
</center>

Well
answering to bill the 2nd, our beloved conducator :
1/ I don't have "empire in arms";
2/ one thing is sure, we cannot wait untill the end of a Crown of Glory game to be awarded points. We therefore must think about intermediate awards of points. May I suggest :
- at the end of a time period ?
- when certain events are occuring ?
- a mixture of both ?
- How to make sure smaller countries have an equal chance to win points than bigger countries ?
A lot to think about.

hey Bill,
what about that nickname : "Bill 23rd the bald" ?

Yours
Stephane


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />I have made this one a Sticky.

Here is my SUGGESTION on how this should proceed.

Stephane - would you take the lead on this and get feedback from the guys in the club that are playing this game? Find out if the game is still crashing even after the first patch came out?

Here are some other tasks for you if you would like to take them on:

1. Visit the Matrix site for us. Let us know when patches are released and what effect they had on your game(s).

2. Organize a small group of guys to discuss the points system you would use. As we all know this game has a Glory Points system. There is no Major Victory but there is a Major Victor! Would you take this task and help us figure out how to score the game?

We should wait at least one more month before we accept the game. Lets give the game some time to mature. Its been buggy from the start. Also its a new region for the club - lets do this the right way.

I am for this game being added in. Who else will volunteer to help out? I am swamped with work and cant get involved. My vote is cast: unless the game crashes alot I will also want to see it added. We need to figure on a way to do a New Game form for it as well as the End Game form.

Each player is on his own side.

Each player gets Glory Points and thus there are 8 total places they can take (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc).

Another game that comes to mind that should qualify in this category will be Empires in Arms. Stephane, if you will do the initial club work on this game (CoG) then when EiA comes out we already will have a working model with which to use for that one.

If anyone is opposed to this game please speak up. We want to hear your objections (if there are any). Maybe you can point something out that we missed.

Not only do we want to hear from the "voices for change" but also for those that are for "careful change" or "no change."

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army
[url="http://www.acwgc.org/acwgc_members/burr/Austrian%20Army/Bill_Peters.htm"]Officer Battle Dossier[/url]

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Austrian Army
6th husaren Blankenstein
finally figured out how to have the signature inserted in the post

I give my entire support to this idea, but we must talk with the developers of this software to grant in multiplayer PBEM the option of fight tacticals battles too so like in TCPIP

http://www.venezuela-emb.org.au/images/flag.jpg

gabriel
We sure will not wait untill that.
VP would be awarded for STRATEGIC victories.

This brings a next question : what is a strategic victory ?

stephane
austrian starter of endless post
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Gabriel Rodríguez</i>
<br />I give my entire support to this idea, but we must talk with the developers of this software to grant in multiplayer PBEM the option of fight tacticals battles too so like in TCPIP

http://www.venezuela-emb.org.au/images/flag.jpg
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Austrian Army
6th husaren Blankenstein
finally figured out how to have the signature inserted in the post

Hi Stephane.

I back this game for the club,I am in the two test games on the go,and there is one or two things that need to be patched,
The more we test the more we find out,I am also playing a test game with Bill Peterson and we are on turn 25,Its all moving along well.

I will also help you if you need any help finding things out or doing some running around for you,

I would like to also help you in working out away the points should be done.
I will get a run down on the 25 turn game i am testing and let you know how its going.


<font color="red">Marechal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red"> Commandant
1ème Division de Cuirassiers,
1 Corps Res Cav,ADN.

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

Dean,

We need to find some method of comparing the points with our established games. Where does CoG rank in terms of the effort required to do a turn versus a turn in an average size HPS scenario? I use HPS as the example because 1 file can constitute a full turn for both games.

Playing in one of the two games right now, I can see them being comparable, especially when you get into the intricacies of province management and trade.

The other aspect to explore is assignment of victory points. Our normal method of doing it once for a scenario may not be sufficient given the length.

Regards,
Jeff

Deen
If we wait untill a game is fully patched before playing it, we would never be playing anything, including HPS (eckmuhl supported 10 patches so far)
The topic here is the victory point system conversion from Crown of Glory to NWC.

Yours
Stephane
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dean beecham</i>
<br />Hi Stephane.

I back this game for the club,I am in the two test games on the go,and there is one or two things that need to be patched,
The more we test the more we find out,I am also playing a test game with Bill Peterson and we are on turn 25,Its all moving along well.

I will also help you if you need any help finding things out or doing some running around for you,

I would like to also help you in working out away the points should be done.
I will get a run down on the 25 turn game i am testing and let you know how its going.


<font color="red">Marechal</font id="red">
<font color="red">BEECHAM</font id="red"> Commandant
1ème Division de Cuirassiers,
1 Corps Res Cav,ADN.

"Toujours féroce,jamais étourdi"

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Austrian Army
6th husaren Blankenstein
finally figured out how to have the signature inserted in the post

Stephane - what Dean means is that the game has "bugs" and that we want to be sure that the game is not going to "crash" alot for our guys.

Stability is a key element in any game we add into the inventory.

HPS Napoleonic games rarely crash. The patches provide the gamers with enhancements to the current engine or new or updated game files for the games.

If the club adopts a game that I don't like, I won't play it. That's an easy one for me. [:)] The promotion system should be independent of the games played and a good conversion system is necessary that would take all games into account.

Will the game have support like <font color="orange"><b>Black Powder Wars: Battles of Napoleon</b></font id="orange"> will?

Lastly, we should have some high standards for the games that we accept. One very big standard should be that a game needs to be working pretty much bug free. That is different than requiring patches to improve and fix minor things.

Right now, there are lots of things that CoG needs to fix before I ever buy it, let alone consider it to be for our club. Why waste our time?

<center>Chef de Bataillon Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord</center>

Hi Le Tondu
If we play one thing exist the risk of that this club will start die, like happened until that HPS deliver the new software.
In fact my Division had reached only 1 officer in the worst time.
We must open more options but of our warfare certainly.

http://www.venezuela-emb.org.au/images/flag.jpg

Hi im in training with Rich,and dont feel good about putting my 2 cents in cause i just got here,however i am a long time gamer and a devot HPS guy,i own many titles and all the BG series.the only comment i want to make is good god lads isnt it tough enough organizing and doing all the work on Johns games without adding a whole other set of variables to the pot,ive looked at some of these other games and will probably buy some just cause theres not a whole lot of options out there for us.I guese what im saying is i love the CCC/ACWC/NWC and it would be a shame to see the quality of the site,or even dare i say the members watered down,hope im not out of line.God Bless General Lee

Here is a point scoring format that I worked out today. Let me know what you think:

Scoring for Multiplayer, one player per side games such as Crown of Glory and Empires in Arms:


1. The Victory Level will be determined by the number of human players involved in the game according to the following formula:

a. Major Victory - player who won the game.
b. Minor Victory - players who didnt win but who did better than a Draw.
c. Draw - the middle of the pack. For even number of players the two players in the middle. For odd number of players the lone player in the middle of the pack.
d. Minor Defeat - those players who didnt deserve a Draw but who didnt come in last place.
e. Major Defeat - the player with the lowest score.

Note: by mutual consent the players can award a victory level to players that they felt did a better job than the next lowest category. For instance: in a seven player game if the players that came in #4 and #5 had a wide separation of points then the players could say that player #4 scored a Minor Victory while player #5 socred a Draw. Thus player #1 would have a Major Victory, players #2-4 have a Minor Victory while player #5 has a draw, player #6 has a Minor Defeat and player #7 has a Major Defeat.

Thus when the player count is even (4,6, etc) then there will always be two players that are awarded a Draw unless by mutual consent.

In two player games the players will have to use their own system. If they felt that both players did equally well then award a Draw to both. If there was only a moderate separation of points then a Minor Victory and Minor Defeat. If the result was a crushing victory then a Major Victory and Major Defeat.

2. The points awarded for Victory level are the same as per the normal club schedule which is:

Major Victory: + 3
Minor Victory: + 1
Draw: 0 pts.
Minor Defeat: - 1
Major Defeat: - 3

3. Points = Turns Complete + Victory Level

4. Training games will be scored at 5 points as per the club standard rule.

Example:

Six members play a Crown of Glory game. The game ends when one of them score 1000 Glory Points. The game lasts 32 turns.

Here is the final outcome:

Major Victory - Joe - 1000 points
Minor Victory - Juan - 780 points
Draw - Sam - 690 points
Draw - Hank - 590 points
Minor Defeat - Bill - 480 points
Minor Defeat - Tom - 460 points

By mutual consent they awarded both Tom and Bill a Minor Defeat as there score was similar.

Noone was awarded a Major Defeat. Joe deserved a Major Victory as he was the clear cut winner.

For any game that doesnt have a scoring method (not sure about Empires in Arms for instance) the players will have to determine BEFOREHAND how they will score the game. The method needs to be approved prior to starting the game.

Thus if there is just a winner then the players will have to have some set method that will help them determine victory when the game is over. For the sake of avoiding argument just come up with a format that is simple and easy to implement. Dont award everyone a Draw or better. There should always be a winner and some losers. Those who did well should be rewarded while those that did worse may not deserve a Draw but perhaps not a Major Defeat either if the game is very close all round.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army
[url="http://www.acwgc.org/acwgc_members/burr/Austrian%20Army/Bill_Peters.htm"]Officer Battle Dossier[/url]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br />
a. Major Victory - player who won the game.
b. Minor Victory - players who didnt win but who did better than a Draw.
c. Draw - the middle of the pack. For even number of players the two players in the middle. For odd number of players the lone player in the middle of the pack.
d. Minor Defeat - those players who didnt deserve a Draw but who didnt come in last place.
e. Major Defeat - the player with the lowest score.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
To me is fine so, the note will be supress, I don´t agree with it. But a question What happen when 1 of those players will decide retreat before of that the game will finish?

http://www.venezuela-emb.org.au/images/flag.jpg