Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Is there something about the PTW engine that precludes the taking of Chateaus, or causing casualties by fire? I have been assulting one for about 10 turns, and shooting the heck out of it, with minimum results. Shooting does nothing, and that is with 3 battalions and a 6 gun battery in the adjacent hex ("No Effect"). 6-1 assults don't seem to work. The last one was 6-1, -2 mod, the one skirmisher occupying it was in a routed state, and it was a fresh "O fatigue" battalion assulting. Attacker Loses. Like I said, this has been going on for about 10 consecutive turns, against 2 small Dutch Jager skirmisher units. 2 more losses and the Dutch are gone, but still, What gives?

Ensign William Davis
23rd (Royal Welsh) Fusiliers
4th British Brigade
Anglo-Allied Army

Ensign Davis,

Attacking chateaus is invariably a bad idea.[xx(] ALL chateaus give the defender the following benefits:

1) The defender does not have to retreat even if it "loses" a melee combat;

2) Very high Defender's strength mod (I forget the exact %).

SOME chateaus also have:

1) "high wall" hexsides which block all fire and melees across the hexside;

2) "Gate" hexsides which reduce an attacker's strength by 50%;

3) "Wall" and/or "hedge" hexsides which convey the usual defensive mods.

There are a few articles floating around on how to go about taking a chateau in the BG games and I would commend your attention to them. Regardless, it is always an expensive and time consuming proposition and should be avoided whenever possible[B)]. In a major battle scenario, e.g., Twin Battles, you are better off simply isolating and by-passing them.

Regards,

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

With regard to taking chateaus held by only skirmishers, I have found in BG games that it is easily done by isolating them and assaulting with skirmishers of half the defenders strength which yields 1 to 2 odds (defender halved due to isolation, and attacker halved due to chateau). This results in usually 25 losses to each and a 'win' for the defender, but obviously if they are isolated that can't last long -- and with a bit of luck they rout and surrender. I <b></b><i></i><u></u>NEVER<b></b><i></i><u></u> attack with formed units -- the disparity in losses is such that it is better to leave the enemy alone in that situation.

In HPS I haven't had sufficient opportunity to test a winning strategy, however.

Regards,

General Theron Lambert
Comte d'Angers et Duc de Montereau
3rd Brigade, 3rd Division
VI Corps
Armee du Rhin
Commandant de la Division de Cavalerie de la Moyenne Garde

In the old Anglo-Allied Coalition Library there was a book titled, <u>Chateaux and How to Take Them</u>, probably authored by Towbridge or Harris. I managed to find the old book stacks but the link to this particular tome doesn't work anymore. Pity.



FM Sir 'Muddy' Jones, KG
2nd Life Guards, Household Cavalry

William,

Here some writeup we have in the [url="http://napoleonicwargaming.com"]1NWCG[/url] that may help:

http://battleground-club.de/tricks_mieszko.html

http://www.scott-ludwig.com/FrenchHQ/ec ... teauxs.htm

Here's modifier information too:

http://www.scott-ludwig.com/FrenchHQ/ec ... ifiers.htm

<center>--------------------------------------------------------



Herr Windbagenführer General der Infanterie Scott Prinz Ludwig von Saxe-Weimar
Aide-du-Kamp and Webmaster
Heer am Niederrhein

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com/"]Königliche Preußische Armee[/url]

[url="http://www.networkforgood.org"]Network for Good[/url]

[url="http://napoleonicwargaming.com"]Napoleonic Wargaming - 1NWCG[/url]</center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by WillieD13</i>
<br />Is there something about the PTW engine that precludes the taking of Chateaus, or causing casualties by fire? I have been assulting one for about 10 turns, and shooting the heck out of it, with minimum results. Shooting does nothing, and that is with 3 battalions and a 6 gun battery in the adjacent hex ("No Effect"). 6-1 assults don't seem to work. The last one was 6-1, -2 mod, the one skirmisher occupying it was in a routed state, and it was a fresh "O fatigue" battalion assulting. Attacker Loses. Like I said, this has been going on for about 10 consecutive turns, against 2 small Dutch Jager skirmisher units. 2 more losses and the Dutch are gone, but still, What gives?

Ensign William Davis
23rd (Royal Welsh) Fusiliers
4th British Brigade
Anglo-Allied Army
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Is the chateau completely surrounded??? if you leave an opening the unit should rout out of the chateau i believe

Taking a chateau requires a bit of planning.

First, what do I gain from taking it? Second, what does my opponent gain from holding it? Third, is it worth the cost of taking it?

Assuming you have decided to take the chateau, heed the following advice:-

1. Only fire at units in a chateau if it is a battalion in line formation and you have an enfilade shot. Even then, only fire with a battery from range 1-2 hexes, or a battalion in line formation from 1 hex, anything else has precious little chance of hitting the target. Conserve ammunition by firing only in the offensive phase, this is what will get the battalion to rout.
By the way, if your opponent has done you the service of leaving a battalion in line formation in a chateau, you have probably already won the battle so taking the chateau is academic [:)]

2. Assuming your opponent is smart enough to have manned the chateau with skirmish company(ies), forget about artillery and musketry; you are going to have to get in their and mix it up with them - and that needs planning. Anyone can take a chateau, but without planning you can easily blow a brigade in the process.

Phase 1:
Isolate the units in the chateau. In other words, surround it so that there is no route from the enemy unit to the edge of the map that is not blocked by either one of your units or it's zone of control.

Sounds easy enough, but, isolation does not occur until after the unit has been surrounded for a full turn so the enemy may counter-attack your surrounding units beforehand, so they need to be prepared for this. In other words - secure the area before worrying about surrounding the chateau. If you secure a large enough area, it is possible to leave a path for the occupants to rout out of the chateau (as mentioned in another post), and not leave a route for the enemy to re-occupy it on his move. For now though, just go for the surrounding to isolate.

Phase 2:
Choose your route(s) of entry. Find the easiest (least costly) routes into the chateau. Best is an open side, then a wall, then a gate, each is made worse if you have to cross a stream or go uphill as well. Find the two cheapest routes into the chateau, that do not mean attacking from adjacent hexes.

Phase 3:
Once the chateau has been surrounded and isolated, make your first attack. Some players use exclusively skirmishers for this, I find it can be cheaper to use a battalion and skirmisher, each attacking simultaneously from one of the non-adjacent hexes selected. The battalion must be in column and neither should have fired that phase. Also, stick a brigade leader with one of the attacking units for his bonus.

This is all about numbers. You must get odds of 6:1. You must minimise the negative modifiers for hexside features, and you must maximise your bonuses, leader, flank attack, no fire in previous phase etc.

You will lose the first couple of melees but chances are you will still inflict at least as many casualties as you suffer. After about 3 turns you will have the chateau at a cost of about the same number of men as were holding it, and probably two battalions on 2-3 fatigue points, which if it is early enough in the game can be recovered in time.

Finally:
If you can not get a flank attack bonus, because your opponent is a smart cookie (like me [:0]) and has manned the chateau with more than one skirmisher, so that you can not get the flank attack bonus. Pass it up, it's probably not worth the effort or cost of getting in there. Look to win the battle elsewhere by defeating the enemy army instead of chasing objective hexes!

I can probably knock up a quick 'Storming the chateaux' scenario to demonstrate the above techniques if you are interested

Regards

Mark

(As you'll see), I tend to ping chateaux with skirmishers rather than full units. It's not much slower as the defender is still accruing fatigue (which add modifiers to subsequent melees) and high dice rolls still result in enemy casualties. The main advantages are that the attacker's losses are reduced due to the skirmisher casualty modifier and the fatigue uncurred only applies to a company rather than a battalion.

Firing into chateux? Nah don't bother - although wheeling a gun onto the flank of the Dutch battalion at Papelotte can cause a rout.

<font color="orange">Luitenant-colonel Peter Robinson
Commander I Corps
[url="http://www.geocities.com/militaireacademie"]Koninklijke Militaire Academie[/url] Adjutant
Royal Horse Guards Blue</font id="orange">