Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Yes, i understand that history is changed once the first man moves, but in an historical game (not a free for all) you need a framework to base the scenario around. This does not have to be a tight as making the French attack Hougumont or Ney charging all the Cavalry at the Allied centre, but what was Nappy likely to do?
Launching the Old Guard at the centre of the Allied line on turn one, i don't think so, detaching a large force of all arms to the East to protect a flank that has no enemy threatening it (or so he thought) while facing Nosey's whole army, again i don't think so.
Using the valley to the West to outflank Wellington, fine no problem, sending a large force to the Eastern end of Wellingtons position to try to flank it, fine could have happened, ignoring Hougumont and assaulting only La Haye Sainte, good tactic!
So with a bit of thought and very simple rules a scenario can be more historical and a lot more fun IMHO.
There again if your poison is a game with no restrictions, i can understand that!

I should make it clear i am talking HPS Waterloo, not BG, in this game the Prussians have a 80% chance of arriving at 3.15pm and will take four moves to clear the Bois de Paris, that is twenty moves into the game.
LJ

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mike Cox</i>
Once the first unit moves, the guarantee of matching history is off.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

That's the whole reason I play the games, I want to try my hand at it...if I wanted the strictly historical result I'd just read books about the various engagements...[8D]



Maréchal Hamilton, Baron d'Barbancon
21st Division
VII Corps, ADR

Saxon Leib-Garde, de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lord Jim</i>
<br />
I should make it clear i am talking HPS Waterloo, not BG, in this game the Prussians have a 80% chance of arriving at 3.15pm and will take four moves to clear the Bois de Paris, that is twenty moves into the game.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Fair enough. Sometimes arbitrary restrictions (fixed units) are needed to give a framework.

At the start of HPS Waterloo, historical, the Prussians have an 80% chance of arriving 1/3rd of the way through. The Anglos and French are near 1:1 in strength with the onus of the attack on the French. (And this is the crux of the BGW Full Barrett). The Fresnch must attack and rout the Anglos. If not they face certain destruction at the hands of the combines Allies. If they detach a moderate combined arms force to block the Prussians, they run the risk of the Anglos moving over to local counter attacks that only serve to prepare the French to roast on the Prussian spit.

Without becoming a free for all, detaching a force to delay the Prussians was certainly on option of Napoleon, though it may not have been the best one for hom to choose.

<b>Général de Division Michael Cox</b>
<font size="4"><i>Principe <font size="1">della </font id="size1">Toscana</i></font id="size4">
Comte de Moselle

<i><font size="4">Armée du Rhin</font id="size4">
<font size="2">2e battallion, 1er Regiment de Chasseurs a Pied, Inf. de l'V. Gde.</i></font id="size2">
<center></center>

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mike Cox</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lord Jim</i>
<br />
I should make it clear i am talking HPS Waterloo, not BG, in this game the Prussians have a 80% chance of arriving at 3.15pm and will take four moves to clear the Bois de Paris, that is twenty moves into the game.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Fair enough. Sometimes arbitrary restrictions (fixed units) are needed to give a framework.

At the start of HPS Waterloo, historical, the Prussians have an 80% chance of arriving 1/3rd of the way through. The Anglos and French are near 1:1 in strength with the onus of the attack on the French. (And this is the crux of the BGW Full Barrett). The Fresnch must attack and rout the Anglos. If not they face certain destruction at the hands of the combines Allies. If they detach a moderate combined arms force to block the Prussians, they run the risk of the Anglos moving over to local counter attacks that only serve to prepare the French to roast on the Prussian spit.

Without becoming a free for all, detaching a force to delay the Prussians was certainly on option of Napoleon, though it may not have been the best one for hom to choose.

<b>Général de Division Michael Cox</b>
<font size="4"><i>Principe <font size="1">della </font id="size1">Toscana</i></font id="size4">
Comte de Moselle

<i><font size="4">Armée du Rhin</font id="size4">
<font size="2">2e battallion, 1er Regiment de Chasseurs a Pied, Inf. de l'V. Gde.</i></font id="size2">
<center></center>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><font color="orange">The Fresnch must attack and rout the Anglos.</font id="orange"><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> This I think is the problem. In a game I am playing as the French, the Anglos have taken 20000+ casualties, French cavalry turned both flanks and thousands of french cavalry are on the way to Brussels and Wellington, Perponcher, Prince of Orange, and the rest of the Anglo high command is killed or on the way to Paris in chains and the Anglo army does NOT rout. This is not just a problem with Waterloo, but with all the HPS/TS games and probably many others. There is NO army morale. Individual units will rout at a certain point but organizations will never rout and that is the problem and the cause of the 'bloodiness' of the HPS games. I have battalions of 30 men firing away instead of running away permanently.
I have played board games and various minatures rules where they used both Brigade Combat Effectiveness and Army Morale bnased on totaL for the organization. BCE execeeded-may not advance towards enemy, may not initiate melee and have a negative morale modifier. This made brigades fragile(not units)so that you could not keep pounding away til the last man. When the Army Morale exceeded similar effects.


Colonel Phil Driscoll
12e Legere of the 7th Division
II Corps
ADN

Vive L'Empereur!

Of course, in that game, aside from the mess with Wellington and company, realize, that at no point in the game had the English taken more losses than the French... so what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Who's morale should have broken first? The French who were bled white or the English?

FZM Freiherr Gary McClellan
Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army
Portner Grenadier Battallion
Allied Coalition C-in-C

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Gary McClellan</i>
<br />Of course, in that game, aside from the mess with Wellington and company, realize, that at no point in the game had the English taken more losses than the French... so what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Who's morale should have broken first? The French who were bled white or the English?

FZM Freiherr Gary McClellan
Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army
Portner Grenadier Battallion
Allied Coalition C-in-C
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Exactly-both sides continue to bash away

Colonel Phil Driscoll
12e Legere of the 7th Division
II Corps
ADN

Vive L'Empereur!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Phil Driscoll</i>
This I think is the problem. In a game I am playing as the French, the Anglos have taken 20000+ casualties, French cavalry turned both flanks and thousands of french cavalry are on the way to Brussels and Wellington, Perponcher, Prince of Orange, and the rest of the Anglo high command is killed or on the way to Paris in chains and the Anglo army does NOT rout.

Colonel Phil Driscoll
12e Legere of the 7th Division
II Corps
ADN

Vive L'Empereur!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This is simply showing you the metal of STEADFAST BRITISH COURAGE & TENACITY.
Actually, this goes back to a simple pregame agreement. If a side loses a certain # of troops, or specific leaders, the game is called.

Ensign William Davis
23rd (Royal Welsh) Fusiliers
4th British Brigade
Anglo-Allied Army

Gentlemen,

The reality is that we shall never, ever have to face it!

We are (almost) 200 years beyond waterloo (and all other Napoleonic battles). The best that we can hope for is that we play a "computer game" that approximates reality at that time. Not your reality, not my enemy's reality, not even a "global" sense of reality (which some wargamers seem to think is a given), but a reality based on varying factors, not the least of which includes an "eye from the sky" over the many battlefields on which we play.

The end result is an approximation of a battle that was maybe fought between some of the combatants at the time. Wacko! Get a life! Its never going to be history! The best that we can achieve is a game! OK, the quality varies (as does a few other things), but we still end up playing a game.

That is all it can be.

Those who were there fought in it. Died during it. Lead armies and issued orders. That was then. This is now. Block away!

Some of us might've enjoyed the pomp and ceremony of marching into battle with drums drumming and fifes fifing. I suspect that view wouldn'nt have lasted long if we had actually been there.

There are several books about the battlefield of Waterloo during the evening after (as there are for many other battles) and there is little to recommend any thought for the glory of war.

Whether we use fore-knowledge to set up an ambush for the Prussians or not, they should come onto the field expecting enemy action. that is, having to fight their way through the woods. In HPS or BGW. They had to on the day - why should we be any different! In fact, we generally aren't!

As someone earlier said, the trick is to be better at it than the person against whom you are playing, using the rules for the game that are available at the time...

GdD Mark Oakford
2eme Brigade
III Cav Div
ADN