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 Post subject: 1806 OOB
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:37 am 
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Location: Bouches-de-l’Elbe
As I worked through the #10_OOB_View.scn to compare the French & Prussian/Saxon forces I stumbled over some things, a lot is of minor if any importance but I thought I put it all into here, no sense in doing it half-hearted.
The things of more importance are some of the mix ups between some Prussian & Saxon units and some missing French COs and corrections for artillery.
I must mention that except for my check on the KR11 I haven't checked if any of my advised changes would lead to a change in uniform

Prussian infantry/cavalry units:
-- Phantom Officer in Prince Henry Brigade(under Right Wing/Main) is Prince Henry and the Prince Henry under the Cavalry Brigade is instead Prince Wilhelm.
-- Börstell Gren should be named Borstell Gren.
-- Gren. Krety should be named Crety Gren.
-- Gren. Rheinbaben should be named Reinbaben Gren.
-- Haustein Gren should be named Hanstein Gren.
-- Helmann Gren should be named Hallmann Gren.
-- Gren. Braun should be named "Alt-Braun" while the unit Braun Gren should be named Jung-Braun.
-- In general all Prussian grenadier battalions should be named XY Gren to be consistent as not few use Gren XY instead.
-- Rutz IR8 should be named Rüts IR8.
-- Schonong IR11 should be named Schöning IR11.
-- 2/Besser IR14 should be named 1/Besser IR14, the 2nd bat. was in Graudenz and the 3rd in Danzig.
-- The Garde-zu-Fuss IR15 was named "Regiment Garde" as the designation Garde-zu-Fuss was introduced after the defeat in 1806. The 1st bat. of the Garde-zu-Fuss IR15 should be designated as "1 Leibgarde/Regiment Garde IR15" instead.
And regarding uniforms, only the 3rd bat. seems to have worn the grenadier hat.
-- Replace Brnshwg-Oels IR12 with Braunschweig IR21. IR12 was with the corps of Karl August von Sachsen-Weimar-Eisenach that later joined Blücher on his march to Lübeck. If possible Brnshwg-Oels IR12 should be named Braunschweig-Oels IR12.
-- Add Alt-Larisch IR26 to Rüchel's corps.
-- Treunfels IR29 should be named Treuenfels IR 29.
-- The Hessen-Kassel IR48 under Belvilaqua is wrongly depicting the Prussian IR48 but it's the Saxon Kürfürst von Hessen infantry regiment. The Prussian Kurfürst von Hessen IR48 was detached to Erfurt.
-- For the sake of completeness and to prohibit further mix ups the Prussian IR 48 should be added. AFAIK it stayed at Erfurt and capitulated there.
-- Rename S/IR#49 to S/Müffling IR49 to be consistent with the way other Schützen units are designated.
-- Kaiserlingk FB1 should be named Kaiserling FB1.
-- Rename FB#4 Greiffenberg to Greiffenberg FB4 to be consistent with the way other Füsilier units are designated.
-- Rename FB#8 Kloch to Kloch FB8 to be consistent with the way other Füsilier units are designated.
-- Rename Borell FB9 to Borel FB9.
-- Change uniform for Rabenau FB13 to the green uniform, currently it used the blue infantry uniform.
-- Change uniform for Pelet FB14 to the green uniform, currently it used the blue infantry uniform.
-- Change uniform for Ruhle FB15 to the green uniform, currently it used the blue infantry uniform.
-- Rename Ruhle FB15 to Rühle FB15.
-- Rename Schatmeyer FB23 to Schachtmeyer FB23.
-- For consistency change Jager names to Jäger.
-- If possible Schimlpfning HR6 should be named Schimmelpfennig HR6 or if too long at least to Schimmelpf..
-- Likely not just 4 but 8 squadrons of Usedom HR10 were under Cav/ResK.
-- Ansbach HR11 should be named Bila HB11 as it wasn't a regiment but the Husaren-Bataillon 11 under v. Bila formed in 1792 in Berlin in the wake of the Ansbach-Bayreuth takeover.
-- Holtzendorf KR9 should be named Holtzendorff KR9.
-- Gendarmes KR10 should be named Gens d`armes KR10.
-- Leib Karab. KR11 should be named Leib Carab. KR11.
-- Gd du Korps KR13 should be named Gd du Corps KR13, if possible fully written Gardes du Corps KR13.
-- Remove Auer DR6 from the EPC as it was in Korps L‘Estocq who was on the Ems stationed.
-- 5/Hertzberg DR9 is missing, on purpose?
-- 5/Heyking DR10 is missing, on purpose?
-- Change the Towarczys to one 10 sq. regiment(formed in 1800 from the "Regiment Bosniaken) and one 5 sq. bat.(formed in 1800, 5 squadrons, 5th formed from the former "Tatarenpulk" which had been raised in 1795), currently there are 3 different Towarczys units depicted.
-- Although unused the infantry battalions in the East Prussian Corps should be set to restricted like all the other Prussian line battalions already are.


Saxon infantry/cavalry units:
-- As the Saxons neither officially nor unofficially used numbers for their regiments the best way for numbering regiments is by order of formation as used by Tessin(Check https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_kursächsischen_Regimenter_der_Frühen_Neuzeit ). That leads, besides name corrections, to the renumbering of all Saxon infantry and some Saxon cavalry regiments.
-- Lecocq Gren should be Lecoq Gren.
-- Thiolloz Gren should be Thiollaz Gren.
-- Winckel Gren should be Winkel Gren.
-- Niesemueschel IR11 should be Niesemeuschel IR2.
-- Low IR8 should be Low IR3.
-- Pr Maximilian IR5 should be Prinz Maximilian IR4.
-- Pr Clemens IR4 should be Prinz Clemens IR5
-- Xavier IR9 should be Prinz Xaver IR8.
-- Rechten IR12 should be Rechten IR10.
-- Thümmel IR6 should be Thümmel IR12.
-- 2/Ryssel IR10 should be 2/Bevilaqua IR13.
-- Leib Karab. KR11 under Kochtisky is designated wrong as KR11 because it's supposed to be one of the Saxon Cuirassier regiments. It seems to be a mix up with the Prussian Carabiner regiment under Prince Henry, that one was KR11. And as the mix up with the Prussian Carabiner must come from somewhere my guess is that the Saxon Zezschwitz KR7 is meant because that regiment had the term Carabiner used some years before.
I think there is also a mix up in the uniforms as the orange uniform of the Leib Karab. KR11 under Prince Henry is depicting a Saxon regiment because the Prussian uniform was like this:
http://regiment-index.de/img/knoe_00/knoe_06/06_11.jpg
The Leib Karab. KR11 under Kochtisky has those white uniform but it's a Saxon regiment so I think the units have to switch their uniforms.
-- Koschitizky KR3 should be named Kochtitzky KR3
-- Polenz CL4 should be Polenz CL2.
-- Add Saxon Prinz Friedrich August IR7 to formation Burgsdorff/LW.


Prussian/Saxon artillery units:
-- Uniforms have to be checked, currently there are 2 types in game, a green jacket that should be only used for Saxons and a Blue one that should only be used for Prussians. As the current OOB lacks any clear distinction between Prussian & Saxon artilelry units the current uniforms are likely not correct. Lettow-Vorbeck seems the only sources that differs Prussian & Saxon artillery and it should be used to rework the uniforms.
-- Add to Bonniot FAB extension (a), (b), etc. to make clear these are no multiple entries but a split battery.
-- Add to Ernst FAB extension (a) & (b) to make clear these are no multiple entries but a split battery.
-- Add to Hausmer FAB extension (a) & (b) to make clear these are no multiple entries but a split battery. Rename to Hausmann.
-- Add to Grossmann HAB extension (a) and (b) to make clear this is no double entry but a split battery.
-- In the Brigade Bevilaqua(Belvilaqua/AdvGd) the Foot Battery Hoyer with 4-pounders is missing, could it be there in addition or instead of the battalion guns? The artillery loadout is very uncertain, some source say 20 some say 44(of which 33 were lost at Saalfeld) for the Advance Guard of Hohenlohe.
(Osprey Camapign 20 notes that the Prussian reserve batteries of 12 6-pounders were often distributed as regimental guns, so maybe the Hoyer foot battery provided the battalion guns.)
Lettow-Vorbeck notes that Battery Hoyer was lost at Saalfeld, it has to be added but only used in Saalfeld scenario(where it's currently missing).
-- Change Schaefer Foot to Schäfer Foot.
-- Change Tulmar to Tüllmann. Also change type to howitzer.
-- Gause HAB is horse artillery in Anlage II of Lettow-Vorbeck but not horse in Anlage IV. As 1/2 battery was lost in Saalfeld was it used as foot battery?
-- Change Schul. FAB Schulenburg FAB or if too long at leadt to Schulenb..
-- Overall some artillery units use guns different from those noted in the OOB of Lettow-Vorbeck, I guess all artillery units have to be checked for using correct guns.
-- The missing battalion guns have to be added. Each infantry bat like each grenadier bat. had 2 guns, note that the Fusilier bat. had guns(afaik a single 3 pdr) too but they were left home before the campaign started. Now adding the battalion guns as 2 gun units would be perfect, this simulates the overcrowded train with which the Prussian troops marched. If it plays out well the Prussians will have more trouble than benefit from them, just like it historically was. It must be noted that some regiments united their battalion guns to a battery, if details can be found this could indeed be done but until then 2 gun units should be the norm. The battalion gun was usually a light(10cm) 6 pdr.. Haven't found details about this type but I guess it was different compared to the normal 6pdr of which only 2 batteries were with Hohenlohe & Braunschweig.
-- The Mortierbatterien(mortar batteries) were left home, not to be mixed up with the howitzer batteries of which some were with the Prussian force.


French units:
-- Cav/IC is missing the 3rd regimental colonel.
-- Cav/VC is missing the 3rd CO for a regiment, or can it be that the 3 Brigade Generals do each one command a cavalry regiment and that there is no overall corps cavalry commander?
-- 4th Corps artillery is strange, the 17th co. 5th Foot Artillery Reg. shows up 4 times. I can only advise to make smaller foot artillery units of 4th corps "17 Co/5 Regt Foot" as that company seems to have been spread over all divisions and the corps artillery reserve. It also seems the 12pdr is to numerous, 4th corps artillery strength on wikipedia/Osprey is 52 guns is:
1st Div. Artillery: 2x 12pdr guns, 8x 6pdr guns & 2x 6-inch howitzers spread over 12th and 17th (-) companies of 5th Foot Artillery Regiment
2nd Div. Artillery: 2x 12pdr guns, 8x 6pdr guns & 2x 6-inch howitzers spread over 13th and 17th (-) companies of 5th Foot Artillery Regiment
3rd Div. Artillery: 4x 12pdr guns, 6x 6pdr guns & 2x 6-inch howitzers spread over 14th and 17th (-) companies of 5th Foot Artillery Regiment
Corps Artillery: 8x 6pdr guns, 2x 6-inch howitzers, spread over 16th and 17th (-) companies of 5th Foot Artillery Regiment
Wiki has no artillery attached to the corps cavalry but Osprey gives:
Cavalry Artillery: 4x 8pdr guns & 2x 6-inch howitzers in 4th company of 5th Horse Artillery Regiment
-- 6th corps artillery is strange too, overall numbers are 4x 12pdr guns, 12x 8pdr guns, 4x 4pdr guns & 4x 6-inch howitzers but ingame we have 12x 12pdr guns as foot artillery and 12x 6-pound guns as horse artillery, while the same amount the type of guns make it look like the ingame artillery is heavier than the historical OOBs suggest.
-- 2 Co/6 Regt Foot of 1st Division 7th Corps is supposed to be horse artillery. And that company is split between the 1st and 2nd Div of 7th corps so numbers must be adjusted too as each division is supposed to have 8 guns.
-- In 1806, just like 1805, the French were not using skirmishers anymore like in the Revolutionary Wars but line just like light regiments used skirmishers if the need for them arose. Obviously it's unwanted to allow all line regiments to dish out an unlimited amount of skirmishers but it should be considered to at least enable one line battalion per brigade to sent out more than one skirmisher unit, even if that means to designate them as V type what makes them 3-rank Light Infantry that is able to use multiple skirmishers as there seems to be no unit type that is a 3-rank line with multiple skirmishers.
- 35th Line Regiment is likely the 36th Line Regiment, the 35th was at the time of Jena-Auerstedt in Italy.



Edited 5th February 2018 with latest research.

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Capitaine Christian Hecht
La Grande Armée - IIIe Corps d'Armée - 3ème Division d'Infanterie
"Vive la révolution, vive la france and vive L’Empereur!"


Last edited by Christian Hecht on Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:33 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1806 OOB
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:40 pm 
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A serious problem is the composition of Rüchels corps, often OOBs show under Rüchel the Generals Winning & Saxe-Weimar but that is likely wrong as Saxe-Weimar & Winning were detached and so far away that both missed the battle.
Winning was South-West of Eisennach and Saxe-Weimar was near Ilemnau and the evening of the 13th October.

The problem now is that the units of at least Saxe-Weimar do not seem to be in the OOB, that means the Rüchel corps isn't supposed to let out its Corps de Batille that the game OOB currently has under the command of Saxe-Weimar.
I'll try to find some detailed information of the Rüchel corps to see what he really had at hand and of the detached forces under Saxe-Weimar & Winning to make sure everything of Rüchel that could participate at Jena-Auerstedt is in the OOB.

For now some numbers must be enough.
Rüchel had on the 14th October:
19 bat. infantry
1 co. jäger
18 sq. cavalry
3.5 bat. artillery
Overall 15260 men.
That already excludes some reserves, 2 bat. near Erfurt and 2 sq. detached to Hohenlohe.

Winning was near Eisennach with:
3.5 bat. infantry
2 co. jäger
10 sq. cavalry
0.5 bat. horse artillery
0.5 bat. foot artillery

Things to correct for sure are to remove Winning and Saxe-Weimar as they did not participate in Jena-Auerstedt.

_________________
Capitaine Christian Hecht
La Grande Armée - IIIe Corps d'Armée - 3ème Division d'Infanterie
"Vive la révolution, vive la france and vive L’Empereur!"


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 Post subject: Re: 1806 OOB
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Hi Christian - if you want to work with me to correct JUST the names of the units in this OB, and any others in the game, I will be sure to give you a free copy of Campaign Eylau-Friedland (CEF) when its finished.

I know I would not have the time (or the mental energy) to do all of this.

Once the game was out I was able to acquire the lovely book by Emperor's Press which was translated by Bowden and another man. In there I noted some mistakes in the OB file. However, I cannot switch units around. The scenarios would not open.

You are welcome to come up with a correct OB and publish it yourself. Just remove the units that are incorrect and then change the OB name in the scenario file with yours and then add the units back in again. I remember that the Advance Guard was incorrect.

Contact me via PM or email if you want to do the corrections to the names. If we do this it would have to be to ALL of the OB files as we would not want to have incorrect names in the other files as well.

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Infanterie-Brigade Hessen-Kassel
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Scenario Designer for Napoleonic Battles series - John Tiller Software
http://friendsofwargaming.com/support-bill-peters.html


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