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 Post subject: Do we...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:52 pm 
... have a two-rank infantry type that is restricted like the three rank R type?


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 Post subject: Re: Do we...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:14 pm 
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Not that I know of, Al. The OB guide for Leipzig lists all of the known types. If it is there it is one that John has never mentioned.

But I can check with him and see if maybe it was just never documented.

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Bill Peters - Prussian civilian observer
Scenario Designer for John Tiller Software "Napoleonic Battles" and "Panzer Campigns" series games


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 Post subject: Re: Do we...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:26 pm 
Okay, thanks.

For the curious, if the Brits followed SOP (per Wellington's instructions in the Pens.), and stripped thier line bns of the light coys (forming an adhoc lt bn at bde level), then the Brit line would no longer be able to deploy skirmishers.

I'm building my British army for my "Al's Wargames" oob, and want to explore how it would play out, if the engine allows it. I see Rich W used R in his company level games, but that makes them 3-rank troops instead, not the way I want to go, but may have to. Of course since my OOB/Scenarios cover 1805-07, essentially, the 3-rank designation may not be too far off from proper practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Do we...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:37 pm 
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I do not know how true that is as far as their total inability to skirmisher. I do know that the Light bns. were formed as a means of inhibiting the French skirmishers and doing a bit of skirmishing on their own.

Wondering if this would not be a bad question for the Nap Series folks. Just had a nice discussion with them on the Prussians use of a 2 rank line. Consensus is that there is no consensus on that one! :mrgreen:

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Bill Peters - Prussian civilian observer
Scenario Designer for John Tiller Software "Napoleonic Battles" and "Panzer Campigns" series games


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 Post subject: Re: Do we...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:27 pm 
Yes, I followed the Prussian discussion. It appears designers have a bit of flexibility in how they would like to model the Prussian infantry. That is a good thing, imo.

As for British skirmishing.... of course they developed 'that loose flimsy order' during their experiences in North America from 1755-1781. That order though was an extended line, not the French style two-man skirmish team working semi-indepently. I think using the extended line button in the Nap engine is a good representation of that looser line formation, at this scale. I would like to see documentation of line coys (companies) despatching skirmish teams/lines similar to the French or even Aus/Prus practice.

In terms of regulations, it is my understanding that Dundas' regs shied away from thin formations and brought the Brits back to a 3 rank line. Of course it allowed for a 2 rank line to maintain frontage. As with the French evolution to the 2 rank line usage, Dundas appears to place frontage of a bn to be more important than number of ranks, but I'm not aware of him advocating skirmishing with the hat coys.

You're correct of course in that the Nap Series forum regulars would probably eat this topic up. :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Do we...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:49 am 
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Official answer - no code exists for any other types of Two Rank Lines than what I have already listed in the OB_Guide.pdf file for Leipzig. For those of you that do not own Leipzig they are:

Two Rank Line
T - Line Infantry - can detach one company of skirmishers
U - Light Infantry - can fully breakdown into skirmishers
F - Guard Infantry - can fully breakdown into skirmishers

The other type that does not exist is the Two Rank Line Militia.

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Bill Peters - Prussian civilian observer
Scenario Designer for John Tiller Software "Napoleonic Battles" and "Panzer Campigns" series games


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 Post subject: Re: Do we...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:24 pm 
The other issue involving British skirmish companies is that British battalions had ten companies. So if you go with a universal one sixth to accurately portray 1808+ french, the Brits get to deploy too many skirmishers per battalion.

I created adhoc light battalions or separate skirmish companies in british brigades in my Waterloo scenarios, taking one tenth strength from the battalions and combining them. I used three rank line restricted for british line battalions so they could not form skirms, but gave the brits better firepower than the french.

In any case, I don't care for the implementation of two rank line fire. Two rank line fired all their muskets, but not at plus 50% fire. Now if that applied [b]only[b]to extended lines (2 or three rank) of two adjacent units of the same battalion, I'd be fine with it...


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 Post subject: Re: Do we...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:11 am 
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What actually happens in the game is that we should not think of it as a factoring matter. Not that 400 men fired LIKE 600.

In other words the game actually is looking at the Line as factors and not men.

Thus 600 men in a 3 rank line under the "golden number" for Extended line actually fires with full firepower. The extra 200 men are factored in as if they extended to the right or left (or both).

So the 3 Rank line gets the 50 percent bonus too. Hope you can understand that they are getting a benefit as well.

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Bill Peters - Prussian civilian observer
Scenario Designer for John Tiller Software "Napoleonic Battles" and "Panzer Campigns" series games


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