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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:11 am 
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Gentlemen,
the manual irritates me a bit in regard to the way the Movement Threat Disorder OR is explained .

P. 28 of the Bautzen Main Program Manual states:
"Select Movement Threat Disorder to cause units that are moving to be
subject to the same cavalry disorder due to threat as when units attempt to
change formation. Depending on the strength of the cavalry and the morale of
the moving units, this may cause disorder or rout to the moving units. See the
User Manual under Threat Values for more details."


The User Manual of Bautzen states on page 17:
"Any attempt to change formation, by any non-Artillery unit, may fail based on a
certain chance computed at the time the change is attempted. Also, if the
Movement Threat Disorder optional rule is selected these parameters will
apply to standard movement.
The probability depends on several factors, one
of which is the Threat Value. The Threat Value is a value determined by the
presence of enemy forces. The Threat Value is the sum of all individual Threat
Values determined by enemy forces within a certain range of the unit
attempting the formation change. The Threat Value exerted by an individual
unit is base on the unit type as follows:
• The Threat Value exerted by an Infantry unit of strength S is (2 * S) / 100
at distance of 1 hex and S / 100 at a distance of 2 hexes.
• The Threat Value exerted by an Artillery unit of Strength S is 2 * S at
distances up to 2 hexes and S at distances up to 4 hexes.
• The Threat Value exerted by a Cavalry unit of strength S is (3 * S) / 100
at distances up to 2 hexes, (2 * S) / 100 at distances up to 4 hexes, and
S / 100 at distances up to 6 hexes."


The main program manual sounds like only cavalry would be a threat factor while the user manual suggests that all units can contribute to a threat factor in a hex.
Could anyone clarify how this OR really works?

Besides that, the manual notes "standard movement", does this mean the OR only kicks in if a move from a hex to hex is made and not when changing facing?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:00 pm 
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I just did a test of this rule ... advancing on an enemy is now next to impossible in the open. I disagree with the logic of the rule ... I also definitely do NOT agree with the ROUTED possibility.

In my test, using Campaign Marengo, I had a line of French (mixed arms) advance against an Austrian line of all arms (as well). What got me was that the Threat Value was staying right at 727. As I came closer it did not increase.

Anyway, several units Disordered moving in Column towards the enemy and one unit ROUTED. I just dont believe that that ever happened with formed infantry of France vs. Austrians.

Not sure of the rationale of the rule. Thank goodness its an option and not a hard wired rule in the Main Program.

I will be leaving it off in all cases.

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Scenario Designer for John Tiller Software "Napoleonic Battles" and "Panzer Campigns" series games


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:47 pm 
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Sure that 727 is the threat value? Sounds impossible high, and that it doesn't change is suspicious as thread value should raise when closing in.

Anyhow, trying to follow the threat value is sometimes... impossible. I just moved a squadron of Kürassier in front of a French grand battery, and the threat value is zero despite facing 33 French guns. Tried the same with infantry and have a similar strange result, on 4 hexes threat value was 33 like it's supposed to be, on 3 hexes it was down to 23, and on 2 hexes its zero. No clue what happens, maybe the embank plays a role but I doubt it should.

And limbered artillery seems to also exert a threat value, unfortunately that doesn't make much sense but well it already makes no difference if a battery is limbered or not regarding melee, so it doesn't really surprise.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:14 am 
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I heard from Rich H. today. The code wont be changed to fix the Supply Wagon's from disordering. Suggestion: move them forward once an area has been cleared.

He basically said that its an optional rule and if you do not like what you are seeing don't use it.

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Scenario Designer for John Tiller Software "Napoleonic Battles" and "Panzer Campigns" series games


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