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 Post subject: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:32 pm 
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Gentlemen,
there is an interesting topic at the ACWGC club that brought up a point:
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewt ... =4&t=21933

A simple summary is that tests had shown that formations with a leader use a command range of a superior that equals the command level above that formation. So a formation classified as a brigade(not only named but classified as, what can be seen in the ingame Organization Dialog) would have to be in the range that equals a DC command range even if its superior would be a CC or even AC. That means you can't always trust the command range that is shown for a leader as some formations need to be closer.

Now, is that also working that way in the Napy series?

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:17 pm 
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It does not appear to work that way in the Napoleonic Battle series. I just did a test using a modified Ceva.oob file from Marengo where I elevated the French Division commander, Augereau, to a Corps level commander in the OB file. There were no detached French brigade leaders, despite one of them being further than the 6 hex division range but still within the Corps command range.

I am glad its not that way in this series. I had no idea that is how it worked in the ACW series. Been playing it for years and just never noticed that.

Thanks for referring to the ACWGC thread. Good info to know. Should be in the manual OR should be corrected in the Main Program.

For me: the command level denotes the ability of a staff to project its presence on the battlefield. For special battles the Scenario Designer can use a PDT File where the command ranges are less if they so desire. But if a commander is a Corps commander they aught to have the Corps Commander's range too.

So if in the ACW series a unit is directly under a Corps Commander .. as in Staff cavalry unit ... would the Corps Commander have a command range of a Brigade leader? (thinking out loud here)

Anyway, not a problem in this series from what I can tell. Anyone else say different?

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:55 pm 
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I guess it depends really on how the OOB is setup and what the intentions of the designer are.
The example at the ACWGC is something were I'm fine with the way it works in the CW engine because it allows the reserve artillery to be distributed among the corps without going detached, in reality these batteries would have likely been assigned to corps or divisions for use and so wouldn't be out of command at any point. As the engine can't do that it is fine that these batteries utilize the corps commander range.
The provost guard in comparison is something that should be kept near the HQ, if they would act 3k yards away without going detached it seems rather strange as it isn't what they should do at all. So again I'm fine with the way it works.

Not sure how the complete Napy series is in that aspect but I think we have rather seldom any kind of HQ guard, and if we have it's usually of small in size and shifting it somewhere would likely not make sense at all.
Besides that, with the new no melee detached rule in the latest patch series it might be good that it isn't working like in the CW series.

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:31 am 
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I started adding in those HQ troops .. frankly most folks rarely use them to guard the "HQ" ... it would be nice if the series had an "HQ" location ... especially for the French when Napoleon is present. He had quite an entourage ....

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:56 am 
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Well I don't know about the other games but looking at Austerlitz these small units, one with 38 the other with 61 troopers, are surely not good to be thrown into battle against squadrons that are usually much larger.
I think they would vanish quickly, so keeping them with Napoleon and the other officers of his HQ seems the better option.

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:18 pm 
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Bill Peters wrote:
I started adding in those HQ troops .. frankly most folks rarely use them to guard the "HQ" ... it would be nice if the series had an "HQ" location ... especially for the French when Napoleon is present. He had quite an entourage ....


In set piece battles such as Waterloo, Borodino, Austerlitz all the scenario designer needs to do is set an objective hex of value and maybe make it a supply source, then in the OOB give the French the Guard duty bn for the day, and the Emperor his duty squadrons.

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:09 pm 
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Well couldn't such a VP & supply location be occupied by a supply wagon?
Not sure this would force the "correct" use of such HQ escort units.

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:53 pm 
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Christian Hecht wrote:
Well couldn't such a VP & supply location be occupied by a supply wagon?
Not sure this would force the "correct" use of such HQ escort units.


Supply wagons don't fight. If you don't have designated units to protect a high valued hex, then you have to detach some to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:00 am 
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Al - and using your kind of creative design ideas .. having a small infantry unit to depict the HQ would work. Have it FIXED .. if it gets destroyed substitute a PDT file (by mutual agreement) that reduces the Army commander's command range to 14 or something like that.

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:45 pm 
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Bill Peters wrote:
Al - and using your kind of creative design ideas .. having a small infantry unit to depict the HQ would work. Have it FIXED .. if it gets destroyed substitute a PDT file (by mutual agreement) that reduces the Army commander's command range to 14 or something like that.


Even have the unit emplaced so it doesn't run off.

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:46 pm 
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Bill Peters wrote:
Al - and using your kind of creative design ideas .. having a small infantry unit to depict the HQ would work. Have it FIXED .. if it gets destroyed substitute a PDT file (by mutual agreement) that reduces the Army commander's command range to 14 or something like that.


Even have the unit emplaced so it doesn't run off.

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:08 am 
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A new unit type is needed!!! HQ units ;) .. oh yeah... not gonna happen lol

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:38 am 
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Bill Peters wrote:
A new unit type is needed!!! HQ units ;) .. oh yeah... not gonna happen lol


That would be nice, but ain't gonna happen. So you put an inf U with swords to reflect the staff, or make it a Dragoon so they can be foot or horse for movement. Fix it or emplace it (if possible) It could be well over 100, so cavalry would be better to reflect importance and horses in victory points. If you want to reflect the carriages, wagons, treasury of an army HQ make an artillery unit with swords. It can be limbered or unlimbered, give it the size of 3/4 the allowable stacking for artillery so another unit could be in the hex to help defend it. Yeah the unit pics and 3d pics will be wrong, but .... it's okay with me. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:47 pm 
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Well you could just fake it. There may be empty slots for graphics and you could simply add a tent for the 3D map & the unit box art. For the 2d map depiction it gets complicated, but it might work if depicting the unit as naval unit and modified the anchor symbol on the 2DSymbolsLg.bmp & 2DSymbolsSm.bmp with an HQ symbol.
But I wonder how a naval unit would be handled if placed on land and meleed by ground troops, maybe that doesn't work at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Detached Commanders
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:59 am 
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Yes, Al .. there you go ... didn't think of that ... give it swords and make it an artillery unit (foot) ...

U 80 5 E S <Units.bmp #> <3D#> Imperial HQ (the name field)

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