American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

Anyone notice that the VP Hex values are hidden for the 2nd player when using extreme FOW?

First player to move in a scenario sees that VP Hex is worth 500. The second player sees that the VP Hex is worth 0 even though it is still worth 500 points.

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Lt. Col. Thomas Wayne (Iddings)
6th Brigade, 3rd Division, I Corps
Army of the West

It is WAD. Under Extreme FOW, you don't know how valuable some objective hexes are to the other side. You can only guess what the enemy's intentions are.

Extreme FOW is, well, extreme.

If you don't like it, then don't play with the Extreme FOW optional rule.

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Civil War Battles Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Campaign Series Lead Programmer, https://cslegion.com

So the idea is that the second player is the defensive player, so the objectives are hidden from them, is this correct?

Edit- Is there a way to mod this in the scenario editor or via the PDT files, or somewhere else?

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Lt. Col. Thomas Wayne (Iddings)
6th Brigade, 3rd Division, I Corps
Army of the West

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Civil War Battles Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Campaign Series Lead Programmer, https://cslegion.com

_________________
Civil War Battles Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Campaign Series Lead Programmer, https://cslegion.com

_________________
Civil War Battles Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Campaign Series Lead Programmer, https://cslegion.com

Thanks Berto for posting and linking all that information! It's very helpful. I see myself experimenting with that in the near future.

Here is one thing I am either confused about or concerned about, depending on my understanding of the new mechanics and how they relate to XFoW...

My understanding is that the second player cannot see the VP values under XFoW. This will work well with most scenarios where one player is the attacker and the other is the defender. But what about meeting engagement scenarios?

This will have the effect of penalizing the second player in a meeting engagement scenario. I realize that we can simply not use XFoW, but there are reasons to want to play with it that go beyond the VP hexes.

Would it be possible to have hidden VP values, instead of hard coded based on player order, be a value in the SCN file or PDT file? This would give designers even more flexibility in scenario design, particularly with meeting engagements.

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Lt. Col. Thomas Wayne (Iddings)
6th Brigade, 3rd Division, I Corps
Army of the West

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Civil War Battles Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Campaign Series Lead Programmer, https://cslegion.com

And the next title is?

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General Cam McOmish

1st Division Commander
Medeiros Corps
(1/1)
Army of Tennessee
Confederate States of America

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General Ernie Sands
President ACWGC -Sept 2015- Dec 2020
7th Brigade, 1st Division, XVI Corps, AoT
ACWGC Records Site Admin

"If you do not know where you are going, any road will take you there."

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Civil War Battles Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Campaign Series Lead Programmer, https://cslegion.com

Berto,

I'm just happy you are looking at some of the features of the other series to make the ACW series better.

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MG Mike Mihalik
Forrest's Cavalry Corps
AoWest/CSA

This all seems like a lot of effort to control the historicity of a scenario for the first time played, if one doesn't simply pre-load the scenario from the opponent's perspective. Or am I missing something in how the game engine might randomly select those VP values each time the scenario is opened? If that is the case, then the object of historicity is mute.

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General Jos. C. Meyer, ACWGC
Union Army Chief of Staff
Commander, Army of the Shenandoah
Commander, Army of the Tennessee
(2011-2014 UA CoA/GinC)

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Lt. Col. Thomas Wayne (Iddings)
6th Brigade, 3rd Division, I Corps
Army of the West

Wishing this was its own separate Optional Rule and not part of the Extreme FOG rule as otherwise I like the rule. Not knowing what a value is is really moot as all I have to do is open up the Scenario Editor (which I do) and check the value.

When calculating how to win a scenario its important to know what the objective is worth and in most cases the capture of a key location is a set value anyway.

Sorry, Berto, I just dont see the need to disguise its value. I also do not play the scenarios with the idea of "just open it up and play it blind" but frankly when you are looking to WIN a scenario how else can you do that if you do not know what a VP is worth? Its not the worth to the defender that matters but for what its worth to the attacker.

Good point on the meeting engagement scenarios. In this case BOTH sides should NOT know what the VP locations are worth.

Thanks for explanation of the rule and thanks for all you do for the series you work on!

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Optional Rules I Use in WDS ACW Games:
(by column from left to right)
Column 1: All ON except for Man. Def. Fire; Column 2: All ON except for Alt Fixed Unit Rel.; Column 3: All ON except for Art.Capt. & Prop.Op.Fire