2!
1<font size="1">st</font id="size1"> Lt. M. Cox
1st/3rd/<i>VIII</i>
AoS
<i>'Once more unto the breach'</i>
| American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC) http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/ |
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| Poll: Disruption by routing through in HPS games http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7904 |
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| Author: | Mike Cox [ Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:11 pm ] |
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2! 1<font size="1">st</font id="size1"> Lt. M. Cox 1st/3rd/<i>VIII</i> AoS <i>'Once more unto the breach'</i>
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| Author: | slepsta [ Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:16 pm ] |
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5 Fld. Lt. Brad Slepetz 4th "Hell's Rifles" Brigade 1st Division III Corps AoG |
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| Author: | D.H.Smith [ Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:38 am ] |
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KWhitehead</i> <br />I vote #2, artillery has taken enough beating in rule changes it needs something favorable. The computer games have been out for over 30 years, it is about time they moved beyond the restrictions of dice and cardboard. BG. Kennon Whitehead Chatham Grays III Corps, AoM (CSA) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> AMEN!!!!!!!! I have found that artillery has so many restrictions on it that its almost impossible to employ it effectively. Fld Lt D.H. Smith 3/1/III Corps,AotM,CSA 
http://users.adelphia.net/~sapper99/index.htm |
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| Author: | DamCannon [ Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:08 pm ] |
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> vote #2, artillery has taken enough beating in rule changes it needs something favorable. Also, think that the disrupt to infantry should not be automatic but based on a morale check. Even better factoring in unit sizes (1000 men routing through 100 more likely to cause disorder than reverse). BG. Kennon Whitehead Chatham Grays III Corps, AoM (CSA)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> I agree completely. Lt. Damian Cannon XXV Corps 1st Division 2nd Brigade AoJ |
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| Author: | Lawrence Bertolino [ Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:01 pm ] |
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I vote 2. I think I have the most extreme example of the problem. While recently fighting General Mishurda at Jackson, I was fighting in close quarters and advanced a unit to take out a stack of artillery. In return, that unit was pounded with fire, and melee'd. I had 1 single survivor. The first time I have ever seen a unit size of 1. That poor chap routed!!! He disrupted some 700 men he was with, and another 700 men who were in an adjacent hex along with several sections of artillery. Frankly, I laughed out loud as I envisioned this one paniced Rebel causing havoc on the battlefield. He should have been promoted to Division Commander on the spot becuase of the incredible effect he had on the troops! Many years ago I played the Richard Berg Great Battles of the American Civil War series. At Gettysburg, artillery coudl retreat by prolong to avoid a melee. They coudl fire at reduced strength and retreat 1 hex to avoid the melee, with a risk as losing some guns. Nice idea. Also, there were Pins and Routs in the game. An attacking unit coudl be "pinned" by defensive fire. All movement stopped, it could not melee, and could only fire with a strength of 100 men. However, at the end of the phasing players turn, all pins were removed. It was an effective combat result that prevented an attacking unit from meleeing without penalizing that unit when the turn phased. I think units that are stacked in the hex of a routing unit should make a morale check. If they pass, they are OK. If they fail, they are disrupted. If they fail the morale check by a factor of +25%, they rout. This coudl apply to artillery as well. Since most batteries are high morale, they should not be affected by routing units. I still have the Great Battles of the Civil War games, and the associated rules. If anyone would liek to see them, send me an e-mail and I will scan them and send them on. Respectfully, LTG L. G. Bertolino The Pelican State Brigade Commander, Bishop's Corps, AotM |
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| Author: | boilertech [ Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:18 pm ] |
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#2 and #3 Major Gery Bastiani Fightin' Carolinians 4/2/II AotM CSA |
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| Author: | Al Amos [ Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:39 pm ] |
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"Also, think that the disrupt to infantry should not be automatic but based on a morale check." If I recall correctly, disruption is not automatic. It is because of a morale check. When a routing unit enters the hex of a friendly unit said unit takes a morale check. If it fails then it routs, if it passes it is disrupted. Unless I'm wrong on this, all the disrupted units you guys are seeing are because of passed morale checks. You should be happy then to have them disrupted, because it means they passed. If they failed then you would be upset because 1 routed unit routed off the entire army! Perhaps, JT needs to be petitioned to change this so that a unit passing the test is okay, and failing the test disrupted? (an easy recoding job, imo.) MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos 3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC The Union Forever! Huzzah! |
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| Author: | D.S. Walter [ Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:08 pm ] |
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It's automatic, Al. No morale check. Secondary routing is conditional on a morale check, but routing-through disruption isn't. It occurred to me that artillery is so badly affected by this rule for a reason: because usually it has no complete chain-of-command to rely on for positive modifiers being handed down. Reserve artillery has nothing but the army commander to provide a modifier, and only if they are within brigade (!) command range of him (which is hardly ever). That would be why artillery stays disrupted for so long in the HPS games. Gen. Walter, USA AoS / War College |
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| Author: | Antony Barlow [ Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:29 am ] |
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#2 General Antony Barlow Army of the Cumberland |
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| Author: | Al Amos [ Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:18 am ] |
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Dierk, Didn't see in the rules where it is automatic. MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos 3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC The Union Forever! Huzzah! |
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| Author: | D.S. Walter [ Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:31 am ] |
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Changes for Campaign Ozark 1.0 (...) - Added feature that routing units will disrupt units in hexes that the routing units retreat into. Gen. Walter, USA AoS / War College |
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| Author: | Al Amos [ Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:47 am ] |
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okay thanks. MajGen Al 'Ambushed' Amos 3rd "Amos' Ambushers" Bde, Cavalry Division, XX Corps, AoC The Union Forever! Huzzah! |
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