American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)
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entrenching
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13359		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  D. Groce [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  entrenching
What determins how long it takes a unit to dig in? I have a unit that has been digging for almost 45 turns, 275 men should be half way to China by now. They have not been shot at or any other activity.

MG D. Groce
AoP
V Corps
2nd Division
"Into the breach"
Author:  Drex [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
What terrain are they in? If you're sitting on rock it would take for ever.

BG Drex Ringbloom,
Cdr,2nd Div,VIII Corp
Army of the Shenandoah
Author:  D. Groce [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
They are in the woods.

MG D. Groce
AoP
V Corps
2nd Division
"Into the breach"
Author:  ALynn [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:19 am ]
Post subject: 
It would be nice if breastworks construction were tied to unit size - or total number of men in a hex if all were entrenching. (Two units of 250 men = the same as 500 men in a single unit for calculation purposes if all of them are entrenching at the same time since it goes by hex anyway.)

Regards,

Lt. Gen. Alan Lynn
CSA Chief of Staff
3rd Bgde, 3rd Cav Div, II Corps, AoA

God Bless <><
Author:  Pat Thompson [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I guess if they've been sitting there for 45 turns without being fired at they have no sense of urgency. "Ain't no stinkin Rebs around here, I'm taking a nap". Of course the key phrase may be "any other activity"... tell them to start digging!!! and chopping!!! lol

Major General Thompson
Chief of Staff
AoS
Author:  mihalik [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:10 am ]
Post subject: 
I think there is an entry in the parameter data that gives the chance to entrench. I also thought they had made it more likely for larger units to entrench, but can't find it anywhere. I'm not at home right now so I can't double check on that.

I liked the old SSI system better where you entrenched from level 1 to level 5 by using operation points each turn. Each number represented a 10% modifier so that level 5 meant -50% modifier.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA
Author:  krmiller_usa [ Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:36 am ]
Post subject: 
On the game menu bar click on Help to activate the pulldown menu then click on Parameter Data (F2)

This will open a window showing many of the values of the pdt file Scroll down the resulting window until you see something like this

Breastworks Values
Movement: 2   Combat: -50%  Building: 20%

This gives the additional movement cost for crossing breastworks, the combat modifier and the chance of building them. These values vary from game to game and sometimes from pdt to pdt within a game. To the best of my knowledge it is not dependent upon terrain and I'm not sure if the unit size has any effect or not, if so that is hard coded and not adjustable in the pdt.

Some of the infromation in the pdt file does not show up in this window. The ACWGC Engineering pages have information on everything the PDT files control and where that is located in the file. You can find it at http://www.acwgc.org/ACWCO_Engineering/


Gen. Ken Miller
1/2/VI
AoS
Image
Author:  KWhitehead [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:55 am ]
Post subject: 
It's based on the probability factor in the pdt file which is usually 20% and the number of men in the unit attempting to entrench. I believe but have not verified that the 20% factor applies to a unit 1000 strength. Smaller units use a proportionally smaller factor. So your 275 men would probably be digging with a 5.5% chance. Putting a second unit into the hex with the same facing will increase your chance but I believe the roll is on a unit by unit bases.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
1/1/III AoM (CSA)
Author:  laubster22 [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:23 am ]
Post subject: 
General Groce,

Your Quartermasters must have issued that regiment teaspoons instead of shovels...

[;)]

Regards,

Image
General Jeff Laub
Union Chief of the Army
ACWGC Cabinet Member
http://www.geocities.com/laubster22/UnionHQ/
Author:  jbutley [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Amen Mike, I loved those old SSI American Civil War battles. I can't remember how many times I played the Rebs and tried taking those two VP hexes at Pittsburg Landing. Never could though. I think that regardless of the number of men trying to entrench that there should be a certain time period that they should automatically entrench. I have had the same thing happen, where I have several hundred men entrenching from sun-up to sundown and then through the night and into the next day and they never entrench. Either they are pretty lazy or as General Laub said, they are using teaspoons.

Brig. Gen. Jerry Butley
Army of Shenandoah
Author:  Ross McDaniel [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think that a leader stacked with entrenching units should modify the probability of success based on his quality...say, about half his rating because how many successful entrenchments/fortifications can be done in 20 minutes?

BG Ross McDaniel
2nd Bde, 3rd Div, III Corps, AoG, CSA

Stoop and you'll be stepped on; stand tall and you'll be shot at.-Carlos Urbizo

Possibly crawling on all fours might be safer than standing upright, but we like the view better up there. –Isabel Paterson
Author:  D. Groce [ Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
About 3 more turns since first post and still digging, and they have had leader with them the whole time. Every unit around them is dug in and secure. Just a fluke I guess.

MG D. Groce
AoP
V Corps
2nd Division
"Into the breach"
Author:  ALynn [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:41 am ]
Post subject: 
If nothing else the games set later in the war should have a much higher rate for entrenching considering that by 1864 the first thing both sides did upon reaching a position was to dig in like mad - Overland campaign, Atlanta campaign, etc. - all digging, all the time.

Regards,

Lt. Gen. Alan Lynn
CSA Chief of Staff
3rd Bgde, 3rd Cav Div, II Corps, AoA

God Bless <><
Author:  mihalik [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:21 am ]
Post subject: 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ALynn</i>
<br />If nothing else the games set later in the war should have a much higher rate for entrenching considering that by 1864 the first thing both sides did upon reaching a position was to dig in like mad - Overland campaign, Atlanta campaign, etc. - all digging, all the time.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

General Lynn,

You are right. In addition, they ought to afford more protection later in the war, as they were more effective and elaborate.



MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA
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