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You may have just hit upon my problem. I often move a unit/leader/supply wagon from the captured guns, fire at them with a battery at their rear, and then move the unit back onto the captured guns if there are any left. What I see happening in the scoring quite often is that points actually disappear from my score.

Another problem that they are looking into, hopefully for the next patch, is that often guns that are killed are not counted as lost guns in the score. For example, you can fire at 2 limbered guns and destroy them but the score doesn't show 2 more gun kills neither in the total guns destroyed nor in the points. It's unusual to play 25 turns without seeing that happen. In a campaign scenario, the 'lost' guns have not carried forward to the next scenario so the system knows inside somewhere that those guns are actually destroyed. As a carryover from that problem, I have tested to see if the system is counting normal infantry and cavalry losses correctly and it does appear to be doing that.

One more observation I have made, if you have one of your units sitting on a stack of captured guns and then you fire at the captured guns in order to try and eliminate them, I haven't noticed where you will suffer any personnel losses from your unit but your unit will absorb fatigue from the fire. There isn't a much quicker way to go from low to high fatigue in one turn, and due to your own handiwork.

Author:	Neal Hebert [ Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Artillery points
Gentlemen <salute> How exactly are artillery points scored in HPS games? I know that guns destroyed by fire generate points, however what of guns captured and guns captured and spiked? Exactly how are these scored?

Author:	krmiller_usa [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Artillery points
If the Artilery Capture option is used captured guns do not show up as destroyed in the Victory screen, if occupied by your forces the points for captured guns will be there in which case you may show something like 5 guns destroyed but 300 vp in the gun section while normally guns might be 30 vp per barrel. If you do not occupy the hex you do not get any points for captured guns, a good way to keep the points is to place that almost empty supply wagon or a small or highly fatigued unit with it. Officers will also suffice for getting the vp's but that is only good when they can remain in command range of their troops. Finally spiked captured guns count half normal. I haven't played with this option off for a long time but it used to be if you were not using the Artillery Capture option captured guns are handled just like destroyed ones, they disappear from the map and are shown in the vp screen.

Author:	Neal Hebert [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Artillery points
General Miller <salute> Suh, thank you for the explanation. I input the information as described and came up with exactly what is displayed in the "victory" box.

Author:	nsimms [ Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Artillery points
What is supposed to happen score wise when you then destroy a captured gun (move artillery within range of it and blast it out of existence) with Artillery Capture on?

Author:	Neal Hebert [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Artillery points
General Simms <salute> Suh, I suppose it would simply fall into the "destroyed" category along with other guns destroyed by fire noted in the VP box. I do have a problem with guns that were overrun being counted only if a unit is present to gain the 30 points; they were captured and are of no use to the side which had them originally. Objective hexes are awarded based on the last side to control, regardless of whether a unit is present or not. Captured artillery should be scored the same way, in my opinion. I'm also curious why spiked guns are worth only 1/2 points. They were overrun and probably spiked based on the situation at the moment to prevent being crewed if recaptured. Whether they could be salvaged later is of no consequence in the current action, as they are lost to the side which originally had them for the remainder of the scenario. Just my thoughts,

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Artillery points http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16077	Page 1 of 1

Author:	KWhitehead [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Artillery points
nsimms wrote: What is supposed to happen score wise when you then destroy a captured gun (move artillery within range of it and blast it out of existence) with Artillery Capture on? If you have enough ammo to do it this is the best way to handle guns you don't think you will control at the end of the scenario. A 4 gun battery of some short ranged gun type makes a good gun killer. Just unlimber it on the rear of the captured piece and fire away until its gone. Make sure you aren't occupying the captured gun during the turn you start firing. I haven't tested the circumstances but it looks like the game may consider them your guns when taking hits in certain situations so give them a turn to change status from captured.

Author:	nsimms [ Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Artillery points
You may have just hit upon my problem. I often move a unit/leader/supply wagon from the captured guns, fire at them with a battery at their rear, and then move the unit back onto the captured guns if there are any left. What I see happening in the scoring quite often is that points actually disappear from my score. Another problem that they are looking into, hopefully for the next patch, is that often guns that are killed are not counted as lost guns in the score. For example, you can fire at 2 limbered guns and destroy them but the score doesn't show 2 more gun kills neither in the total guns destroyed nor in the points. It's unusual to play 25 turns without seeing that happen. In a campaign scenario, the 'lost' guns have not carried forward to the next scenario so the system knows inside somewhere that those guns are actually destroyed. As a carryover from that problem, I have tested to see if the system is counting normal infantry and cavalry losses correctly and it does appear to be doing that. One more observation I have made, if you have one of your units sitting on a stack of captured guns and then you fire at the captured guns in order to try and eliminate them, I haven't noticed where you will suffer any personnel losses from your unit but your unit will absorb fatigue from the fire. There isn't a much quicker way to go from low to high fatigue in one turn, and due to your own handiwork.

Author:	mihalik [ Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Artillery points
nsimms wrote: You may have just hit upon my problem. I often move a unit/leader/supply wagon from the captured guns, fire at them with a battery at their rear, and then move the unit back onto the captured guns if there are any left. What I see happening in the scoring quite often is that points actually disappear from my score. Another problem that they are looking into, hopefully for the next patch, is that often guns that are killed are not counted as lost guns in the score. For example, you can fire at 2 limbered guns and destroy them but the score doesn't show 2 more gun kills neither in the total guns destroyed nor in the points. It's unusual to play 25 turns without seeing that happen. In a campaign scenario, the 'lost' guns have not carried forward to the next scenario so the system knows inside somewhere that those guns are actually destroyed. As a carryover from that problem, I have tested to see if the system is counting normal infantry and cavalry losses correctly and it does appear to be doing that. One more observation I have made, if you have one of your units sitting on a stack of captured guns and then you fire at the captured guns in order to try and eliminate them, I haven't noticed where you will suffer any personnel losses from your unit but your unit will absorb fatigue from the fire. There isn't a much quicker way to go from low to high fatigue in one turn, and due to your own handiwork. Hi, Ned, Thanks for the information! This is all news to me, as I very seldom destroy captured guns, even when I should. Actually, I have never read of guns being destroyed in the heat of battle other than by enemy fire or malfunction, and I have never read of abandoned or captured guns being a target. I also haven't read of gunners leaving their own guns to man captured guns, but that doesn't mean it never happened. I have often read of guns being captured and immediately turned by the capturing infantry on their former owners. I have also read of guns being rendered temporarily inoperable (i.e., "spiked") by either the gunners before they abandoned them or the capturing infantry in various ways, including removing the implements necessary to serve them. Guns were also rendered temporarily inoperable by damaging wheels (easily remedied; caissons carried spare wheels) or carriages (not so easily remedied). I was just reading "Fields of Blood" about the Prairie Grove Campaign where a Confederate gun carriage fell apart while it was being fired. Fortunately, the Rebs were able to get away with the barrel. (That campaign makes a fascinating story, by the way, if you can get ahold of the book.) Anyway, I think the system does a pretty good job of modelling the capture of artillery, though far from perfect. Ideally, I suppose the guns should be inanimate objects usable by either side, manned by a crew. Rich Walker hinted at Tillercon that JT might be open to instituting crews, but of course that could cause other problems. Thanks again for the enlightenment. Seems I am learning something new about this game every day!

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