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Battlefield Map Error?
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=22915		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Blake [ Sun Mar 20, 2022 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Battlefield Map Error?
One thing that has always bugged me about the Stones River map is the lack of a "Rough" terrain hex where the "Slaughter Pen" in located. This area, a good-sized area of at least a "hex", is well-known for its uniquely out-of-place boulders. Generations of visitors have marveled at this landscape which seems so surreal to find randomly in a Tennessee forest. Soldiers during the battle used the protective cover of the rocks as defensive shields during the fighting between Sheridan's Division and the attacking Confederates. Below are just two shots of the area which give you an idea of the geography there. If you have ever visited the battlefield, it is probably the most popular part on the field, and the one that sticks with you the longest.

Image

Image

If you have ever been you know that the rocks vary from a few inches off the ground, up to about 4 or 5 feet tall in places. These should be represented on the Stones River map (one hex).

I know it is very unlikely that it will ever happen, but I thought I thought I'd bring it up anyways :mrgreen:
Author:  Karl McEntegart [ Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
<Salute> Suh,

A nice find and as you say some account of the terrain should have been taken. A monumental task I suppose to cover every 125 yards, but in specific historical areas such as that it's a pity it wasn't picked up. Excellent pictures giving a very clear idea of the geography indeed.

Thank you Suh.
Author:  mihalik [ Sun Mar 20, 2022 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
I remember when I visited that battlefield many years ago they had a wiard with a broken wheel among those rocks.
Author:  Blake [ Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
mihalik wrote:
I remember when I visited that battlefield many years ago they had a wiard with a broken wheel among those rocks.


Still there

Image

Image
Author:  Scott Ludwig [ Sat Mar 26, 2022 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
For sure! That's very interesting terrain and like you said "uniquely out-of-place". I'm sure once a map editor becomes available, someone will place it on the map.
Author:  Logrus Pattern [ Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
Scott Ludwig wrote:
For sure! That's very interesting terrain and like you said "uniquely out-of-place". I'm sure once a map editor becomes available, someone will place it on the map.

*Paging Dr. Miller, Dr. krmiller_usa*

Would it not be possible to satisfy Blake's desire simply by changing the map file's terrain value for that hex then updating the checksum in a text editor? Or is it more complicated? I'm also not sure how the .bmp map files are significant to the game engine or how they are generated.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
Well the hand drawn maps are just that hand drawn, of course that little change wouldn't be much trouble for an artist. But for a quick change the standard 3d graphics should be used, that also can hold up to the hand drawn maps.
Author:  Logrus Pattern [ Mon Mar 28, 2022 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
C. Hecht wrote:
Well the hand drawn maps are just that hand drawn, of course that little change wouldn't be much trouble for an artist. But for a quick change the standard 3d graphics should be used, that also can hold up to the hand drawn maps.

So you are saying that if you edit the map file, the 3d map would update but not the hand-drawn version? I have not played around with it yet.

I agree, changing the hand-drawn map is probably easy in GIMP or Photoshop.

In a pinch, I wonder if the map editor from other Tiller games could be used to make new maps. For example I glanced at an East Front map file and it looks similar, though there are additional terrain types. I wonder if they are compatible? I am recreating the wheel. Yes, K R Miller has already extensively documented this:
http://www.acwgc-engineering.com/

By the way, Ken, why did you take down the map editor at that site?
Author:  S Trauth [ Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
I debated about posting on this topic for awhile, and to be entirely fair to the topic, noting that GMT's The Dead of Winter also does not have any rough terrain in the area of the a fore-mentioned Slaughter Pen on its map -is it not possible that this might not be something where it was decided that there was no real difference in combat impact from woods? I mean I know the photos show that, and I was thinking of more about scale, including time scale.

Anyways be that as it may, basically all it takes is the CWB map editor; based on using editors - what your talking about is about a what, 5 or 6 hex area (if even that many)? - that should take about 30 seconds (probably less) to do.
Author:  Blake [ Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
I think you could make the argument that the terrain here didn't affect the fighting in the way that the Devil's Den did at Gettysburg. The rocks are not as pronounced. But they do allow up to 4 feet of cover between them in some places and do prohibit the use of any wheeled vehicles in their area. As far as overall size goes, given that the hexes are 125 yards across (I believe) then the scale of the Slaughter Pen would only be about a single hex.

Not as impactful as the rough terrain in other battles but still a notable feature of the battlefield's geography.
Author:  S Trauth [ Fri Apr 01, 2022 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
I thought about this a bit, I do have the editor - and here's how this can work, if you want an area changed to whatever terrain - just put the hexes in here and what you'd want it set to.

I don't also think that the Railway Cut was ever changed in Gettysburg? Same holds true for that -can edit it to what you'd like.

However, here's the situation- I'd have to submit those directly to WDS, and it would be up to them what to do with it.
Author:  Blake [ Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
S_Trauth wrote:
I thought about this a bit, I do have the editor - and here's how this can work, if you want an area changed to whatever terrain - just put the hexes in here and what you'd want it set to.

I don't also think that the Railway Cut was ever changed in Gettysburg? Same holds true for that -can edit it to what you'd like.

However, here's the situation- I'd have to submit those directly to WDS, and it would be up to them what to do with it.


My "best estimate" of where the Slaughter Pen would be on the Murfreesboro map would be about (56, 51). It would be no more than a hex in size. The map below has the area highlighted from the satellite map. It would be a cool map feature to add "someday" if they ever have time.

Image
Author:  S Trauth [ Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
Single hex? Yep - no problem, am on it. Will take care of it after breakfast. Should take only a second.
Author:  S Trauth [ Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
Done and sent over to WDS.
Author:  Blake [ Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battlefield Map Error?
Awesome! Maybe some future update will include it. I wish I knew the EXACT hex it should be placed in but... close is good enough.
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