American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)
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Extreme Fog of War: Yea or Nay?
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23025		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Blake [ Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Extreme Fog of War: Yea or Nay?
Having run the numerous tourneys this year I have heard plenty of feedback on Extreme Fog of War.

The pros seem to be -
1) Hiding enemy numbers in covered terrain
2) Limiting the use of the visible hex toggle button
3) Hiding the point value of objective hexes

The cons seem to be -
1) Hiding enemy numbers in covered terrain
2) Limiting the use of the visible hex toggle button
3) Hiding the point value of objective hexes

Yes, they are the same. People seem to be divided with the same likes and dislikes with this rule. Now that it has been out a while.... have we formed any strong opinions one way or the other yet?

Feel free to share or just vote.
Author:  mihalik [ Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extreme Fog of War: Yea or Nay?
Actually, the only thing I really like about extreme fog of war is hiding enemy numbers in covered terrain, especially with the recent modification.

It is a bit annoying not to be able to check visibility from an unoccupied hex, but a bit more realistic as well.

Don't like hiding objective values at all.

But the first feature outweighs the others by a wide margin, imho.
Author:  Karl McEntegart [ Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extreme Fog of War: Yea or Nay?
In a nutshell, from my perspective, EFOW has to be considered the most realistic method of simulation within our games.

On a personal note I love Item 2, Visible Hex, however it creates an extremely 'Gamey' environment, whereby entire Brigades/Divisions may be hidden or kept out of Line of Sight/Fire by virtue of a few simple mouse clicks ! Ridiculous and Gamey IMHO. We attempt to play our games to win naturally, I hope, but also I would suggest that we do so within the constraints of the Commanders of and on the day. If we use or allow to be used anything which impacts upon this we cannot hope to have achieved anything close to the realistic outcome.

A very personal opinion on my behalf and one with which many will disagree I have no doubt, and I accept this. Again on a very personal note, it is not always solely about winning or losing, but on recreating the situation that existed on the day in the most realistic manner possible within the game environment provided and making the best of good/bad lot.
Author:  Josh Jansen [ Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extreme Fog of War: Yea or Nay?
Karl McEntegart wrote:
Again on a very personal note, it is not always solely about winning or losing, but on recreating the situation that existed on the day in the most realistic manner possible within the game environment provided and making the best of good/bad lot.


I agree with you Karl. Except I would like to elaborate on your last part. It shouldn't only be a accurate recreation, but also accurate "alternative" situations. For example, what if Pickett had fog on that faithful morning and was able to charge under the cover of it, like Napoleon did at Austerlitz? Ive always wondered that, and if certain parts of history had been a little different with a tiny tweak in something like the weather. This game, in some scenarios, give us that ability.

Fog of War is real, we should be using it in my opinion.
Author:  Adam Brookes [ Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extreme Fog of War: Yea or Nay?
The line of sight don't make any sense. I can reload the game and check line of sight by matchin up the hex coord's against a game without extreme fow. It gives the advantage to the player who is more gamey than his opponent in figuring that out.
Author:  Logrus Pattern [ Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extreme Fog of War: Yea or Nay?
Yes. I would like to see more fog of war elements in this game. E. g. not being able to see hexes out of LOS, randomized reinforcement times, etc. Fog of war seems an underappreciated aspect of wargaming to me.
Author:  dukemat [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extreme Fog of War: Yea or Nay?
Not in love with the visible hex as currently configured.
Once a unit from my command moves through a hex, I should be able to see from that hex. It should not matter if I have a unit in that hex or not once I pass through it.
Author:  Karl McEntegart [ Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extreme Fog of War: Yea or Nay?
dukemat wrote:
Not in love with the visible hex as currently configured.
Once a unit from my command moves through a hex, I should be able to see from that hex. It should not matter if I have a unit in that hex or not once I pass through it.


General Matthews <salute>

That is a novel idea Sir and indeed has much to recommend it I believe. This perhaps should be qualified that the hex in question remains within own lines for the purpose of sighting.

It is an unfortunate (ridiculous) situation that a valuable 'Leader' or an entire 'Regiment' generally may have to be counted off in order to observe something previously observed within own lines and sighted, or indeed in addition, to act as a Scout/Recce Unit for a parent force. I raised this question previously on the JTS Opponent Finder FB page but unfortunately it appears that to implement such small Scouting/Recce Units (i.e. 10 man) within the games would involve the total adaptation of every scenario in every game, a huge undertaking and doubtless economical madness. Reconnaissance is poorly handled by the game engine and yet a critical if often misunderstood/under appreciated part of a Force's deployments/maneuvers/advances.

In addition, a Reconnaissance operation, properly executed and conducted, whether platoon based or even in force can provide many elements for a game within a game and as an additional challenge to players.
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