American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

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Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

<Salute> Sir,

I believe your point is very valid and well made. I contend that moving a force of any size through a town, of any reasonable size, is fair to causing delay, confusion and disorder and a penalty for so doing is warranted. The caveat to this might be that it is only relevant in the initial stages/hours/day of a game and specifically with reference to the civilian population element of impediment given they will have either fled to the surrounding countryside or locked themselves into their homes as time progresses. It might also be considered that if continuous bodies of troops pass through a town/city that some enterprising commander may ‘mark the way’ for following forces in some manner.

Leaving aside, for a moment, the actual reality of moving a body of troops, a large body, through any unfamiliar/unknown built up urban area particularly within the period referred to, let’s first examine what the game provides us. Our games provide us a map and on it a town, big or small, with clear roads running through it, simple. If we want to maneuver a ‘force’ from one side to the other we merely follow the road, again simple.

As you stated it does not take account of, and in particular in larger towns or even cities, the likelihood of getting lost or at the very least taking a wrong turn, wrong road etc. creating delay and confusion. If we take a wrong turn in a journey, we simply turn around and backtrack. In our individual case it’s not a problem or even for a small group perhaps, but for a body of 3,000 men, it has the makings of a nightmare of confusion and disorder I believe. Now it could be said that any commander attempting to do this would in all likelihood have the route for his force scouted/reconnoitred in advance where possible. But in our games we do not even need to go to that trouble and hence we don’t. We are however dealing with a period before the advent of organised traffic control systems, military police, in a possibly hostile environment or at the very least an unknown area and with perhaps insufficient or indeed no maps whatsoever of the locale.
It also does not take account of the civilian population as stated, either fleeing or indeed welcoming, but in either event creating further obstruction, confusion and delay. We simply follow the road that takes us through the town/city, once again, simple or too simple perhaps, even too easy !

Obviously within our game system there is no way to model this other than house rule it by imposing a movement penalty.

A point of note: Gettysburg covers 31 hexes, 7 hexes North to South & 8 hexes East to West at it’s widest point. The same on a lesser and greater scale applies to both Corinth @ 24 hexes, 7 hexes East to West & 5 hexes North to South and Vicksburg @ 168 hexes, 15 hexes North to South & 17 hexes East to West ! 17 hexes equates to over 2,000 yards, 1.2 miles approx. of urban roads, streets etc, possibly constricted and narrow and not necessarily conducive to moving a large body of troops.

Another House Rule and another debate but given the circumstances outlined well justified, in my opinion, in the case of a reasonable or larger sized town or city.

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Karl McEntegart
Brigadier General
Officer Commanding
Army of Tennessee





Make my enemy brave and strong, so that if defeated, I will not be ashamed.

A road is a road is a road in the games. Interesting analysis but I don't see how the game could alter towns to be "traffic snarls" unless all roads in a town hex were trails instead of roads. Would a column take longer to move through a town is the question. I have no answer and my opinion is mixed.

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Maj. Gen. Mitch Johnson
ARMY OF THE TENNESSEE COMMANDER

An interesting question. I think Karl has summed up the issues at play very neatly.

On the specific point of why Wadsworth's Division was ordered across the fields, I imagine at least part of the answer lies in the fact that the Seminary was a clearly identifiable landmark that troops unfamiliar to the area could not miss. If troops took a wrong turn in Gettysburg, then who knew what their orientation would be and what landmarks would be visible? Of course, it wouldn't take long for these veteran troops to sort themselves out but given the state of the field and the peril that Buford's Division was in, every minute counted.

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Brigadier General TW Marshall

ACWGC President 2022 - 2024

Marshall's Brigade 'The St Andrews Greys', 2nd (Gator Alley) Division, Stewart's Corps, Army of Tennessee

On the most basic level possible it is always easier to travel around a city or town than it is to travel through it. Otherwise why do we have bypasses for cities? I never thought about it in relation to the games but the topic is intriguing from a gaming and historical perspective. Because each town would be different and each situation fluid it is hard to answer. Going through Fredericksburg in that battle would have been more time consuming as opposed to going through Fredericksburg at any other time. If the games were more adaptable you could cause urban destruction or obstructions and change a normal road hex into an obstructed hex and cause delay.

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Lt. Gen. Steve Griffith


Army of Northern Virginia Commander

It couldn't have been that tough.

The first traffic light was invented in 1868 in London, England. It was installed outside the Houses of Parliament to control the flow of horse-drawn traffic over Westminster Bridge. The traffic light was manually operated by a police constable and combined three semaphore arms with red and green gas lamps for night-time use 1. The first electric traffic light was developed in 1912 by Lester Wire, a policeman in Salt Lake City, Utah 23. It was installed by the American Traffic Signal Company on the corner of East 105th Street and Euclid Avenue in Cleveland, Ohio 2. The first four-way, three-colour traffic light was created by William Potts in Detroit, Michigan in 1920.

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Gen Ned Simms
2/XVI Corps/AotT
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.
VMI Class of '00

Thank you Sir, for those insights....problem solved !

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Karl McEntegart
Brigadier General
Officer Commanding
Army of Tennessee





Make my enemy brave and strong, so that if defeated, I will not be ashamed.

You bare quite correct Sir, the topic is most intriguing indeed and are we surprised given who posed it

Your point about each town being different and the fluidity of the situation is absolutely spot on I believe. I would propose in that regard the size of a town is of some relevance i.e. a 4,6 or even an 8 hex town might not be considered as problematic. A minimum size for obstruction, confusion, disorder and delay would need to be built into a game with the greater the size of the town the greater the obstacles to passing through it.

"If the games were more adaptable you could cause urban destruction or obstructions and change a normal road hex into an obstructed hex and cause delay."[

An excellent point above and perhaps worthy of some further 'Investigation'. I believe in the Panzer Campaign series there is the facility for the creation of 'rubble' in urban environments and the need to clear it with engineers. I shall certainly look into it with some interest as indeed the poser of the original question might also

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Karl McEntegart
Brigadier General
Officer Commanding
Army of Tennessee





Make my enemy brave and strong, so that if defeated, I will not be ashamed.

Further to Steve's point above regarding unban destruction or obstruction I offer the following for those in possession of the Panzer Campaigns series manual and so inclined to delve deeper. I know I shall

Section: 14.0 Parameter Data - P149
Sub-section: Miscellaneous - P151
* Rubble Fire Value
* Congestion Side
The above is taken from the Panzer Campaigns Manual, Scheldt'44, dated May 29, 2022

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Karl McEntegart
Brigadier General
Officer Commanding
Army of Tennessee





Make my enemy brave and strong, so that if defeated, I will not be ashamed.

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Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

Column through a town on road should be like clear terrain regardless of unit size in my opinion. Even in modern standards column will always move faster on roads, unless obstructed like previously mentioned, which really wasn't a Civil War tactic. However, being in line or in fighting formation would certainly slow things down, which the game already models with line and cav disruption.

I suppose a random small dice roll could occur for certain towns to model 'distraction'. I assume the aforementioned commander choose to move around the town to prevent that very thing. He either assumed it may be slower or didn't want any stragglers. Its a very interesting thought nonetheless. Thanks for sharing!

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Lt. Colonel JJ Jansen
3rd Calvary Brigade, 4th Calvary Division
Army of Tennessee
CSA

Your point on urban destruction is well taken and noted. Indeed it was not so much on the point of actual destruction I focused as the difficulty, you originally noted, of just moving a large body of troops through a possibly congested area both quickly and in good order. I only raised the matter of 'rubble' as an impediment to this, a facility within the games to impede/disrupt normal movement. I never thought of Abatis tbh and they also would, in a far more historical manner, perform the same function, disrupting movement and travel.

On the question of "thinking out loud", it is possible within our games for Abatis to be placed in the Scenario Editor before a game commences and may not be to constructed during play. A unit using road movement may move through abatis but with a movement penalty. Breastworks may be built by any unit though and could be construed as constricted/congested terrain but as you noted if this facility is available to all troops, as it is, the games would become unplayable. Trenches on the other hand may only be constructed through the use of the Scenario Editor but may be built in the course of a game, unlike abatis. Like abatis a unit may move through a trench hex using road movement but again suffering a movement penalty. If it were possible to apply this parameter to only a dedicated body of troops, obstruction within towns could be represented either through initial placement per Abatis or construction per Trench. Alternatively, a scenario could be created/devised I imagine whereby trenches are already placed in areas such as town/cities or other strategic locations to represent obstruction/congestion and general disruption to movement.

Like you, thinking out loud and with a considerably lesser skill set to call upon, although I do not entirely agree with the zero expectation of feasibility, at this stage anyway

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Karl McEntegart
Brigadier General
Officer Commanding
Army of Tennessee





Make my enemy brave and strong, so that if defeated, I will not be ashamed.

Not all clear terrain is created equal, and neither are roads. I do think the road-to-clear-terrain ratio should be more 2:3 than 1:2 generally speaking. Another consideration is in the game, cost to move infantry through towns is one in game terms, regardless of roads. I don't think that is realistic.

So I broke out my Coddington Gettysburg book and read how Reynolds, after meeting with Buford and seeing the strength of the McPherson Ridge position, rode through Gettysburg and a half-mile down Emmitsburg Road, where he instructed his staff to tear down fences so the troops could march unimpeded overland, which they did at the double-quick.

Reynolds has the reputation of being a competent officer, so I can only conclude that in this particular instance the reality on the ground is not reflected in the rules of the game.

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MG Mike Mihalik
Forrest's Cavalry Corps
AoWest/CSA

General Mihalik's point is well taken. Part of the problem is the limitation of the base 12 movement system. Off-road movement is the same whether in column or line, which it was not. Were the game system to employ a different base -- 24, for example -- the 2/3 ratio is possible for column movement while retaining a more restrictive factor for line activity. The same could apply for town movement if one so chose. I use base 24 in any scenario I design.

Although somewhat off topic, one could utilize any numeric movement system by changing the relevant PDT. No other change to a scenario would be necessary.

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MG Robert Frost