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American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC) :: View topic - Version 4.05.3
American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/

Version 4.05.3
http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23860		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Quaama [ Fri Apr 04, 2025 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Version 4.05.3
A new update is out.

The big change is that guns now have a maximum stacking limit of 12 guns per hex. A good improvement, although still not historically accurate.

The new User Manual shows how this was achieved:
"When a hex contains guns, then each gun counts as 80 men for the purpose of stacking. Thus, if the Max Stacking value is 1000 men, then a hex can contain no more than 12 guns. So, the total number of guns can vary from scenario to scenario."

Why 80 men? I suspect that was chosen to reflect that some scenarios have a stacking limit of 800 men (rather than 1,000). In those scenarios the maximum stacking would be 10 guns.

Other changes in this new version seem mainly concerned with AI issues.
Author:  Blake [ Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
Without experimenting too much with it, just on paper, I really like the change.

You could stack 700 men with 6 guns in the previous versions in one hex. That hex is unconquerable unless the men rout.

Now, you can only stack 520 men and 6 guns in a single hex.

Ignoring a whole bunch of variables... in a straight up melee of 1,000 attackers vs. 700 defenders (with 6 guns) your chance of success is about 34%. Again, ignoring a bunch of variables!

In the new version the same melee would be 1,000 attackers vs. 520 defenders (with 6 guns) and your chance of success will be about 65%.

Modifiers are your friend. Anyone who plays defense should tattoo that on their mouse hand.
Author:  Quaama [ Fri Apr 04, 2025 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
Author:  Quaama [ Fri Apr 04, 2025 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
Sorry, there's a slight delay. The artillery change seems to work for stacking but not melees.

Further details to MDT later.
Author:  Quaama [ Fri Apr 04, 2025 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
I tested it out a bit more.

The stacking limit definitely works.

Artillery attacked in melees doesn't exactly align with Manual specifications. The Manual says:
"Each defending Artillery gun counts as one third Stacking Point (this depends on Parameter Data Strength Point setting but would normally work out to 8 men per gun)."
The Defend Force number (the guns) works in an odd way.
Example
I had three guns (a one-gun and a two-gun battery) in a hex. Game said: "Defend force of 19 (actual 60)". The 'actual' was correct as the Strength Point was 20 for that scenario. The Defend Force should have been 20 (one-third of 60) on an overall calculation.
If guns are considered individually and fractions are kept it should still be 20. If guns are considered individually and fractions are lost it should be 18 (3X6).
If guns are considered on a battery basis and fractions are kept it should again be 20.
The only way I could get to 19 was to consider guns on a battery basis and lose all fractions. Thus:
1/3 X 20 = 6.67;
1/3 X 40 = 13.33.
Lose all battery fractions so 6 + 13 = 19.
That seems to be the way it works as I tried it elsewhere.

I can't see that WDS explained why they changed the stacking limit to 12. It's a step in the right direction in the interests of better simulation but I'm sorry that they didn't go further and reduce the number to 8 (the maximum possible in real life, under ideal conditions).
Author:  Robert Frost [ Sat Apr 05, 2025 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
Having 8 as a "hard" number -- historically correct or not -- would work against the 6-gun Union batteries. The CSA could stack 8 with their organizationally smaller units. Don't know if this was part of WDS thinking, but to be "fair" would require reworking Union OOBs. Their chosen approach allows flexibility in design.
Author:  Quaama [ Sat Apr 05, 2025 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
Author:  Blake [ Sat Apr 05, 2025 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
I like the number 12 a lot.

It is easily divisible by 4 or 6 which are the normal battery sizes of the two sides. I can't prove it but I bet you dollars to donuts that was a factor in the decision. As Robert Frost said, if they chose 8 or 10 then the USA side would be at a disadvantage in most scenarios because of their 6 gun batteries. Better to just make it 12 which satisfies most people (you will never satisfy everyone!) or at least doesn't anger them too much. Proponents of 20 guns per hex can live with 12 and proponents of 6 or 8 guns per hex can live with it also.

Well... maybe not Paul... but the rest of them can :mrgreen:
Author:  Blake [ Sat Apr 05, 2025 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
Author:  Quaama [ Sat Apr 05, 2025 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
Author:  Karl McEntegart [ Mon Apr 07, 2025 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
I suggest we have had this discussion previously and it did not end well, as I recall. Therefore as Blake says, let us eat donuts instead, and drink coffee of course too, and let all be right in the world :shock:
Author:  Quaama [ Mon Apr 07, 2025 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
Author:  mihalik [ Wed Apr 16, 2025 5:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
Hadn't thought of this before, but this change will adversely affect density as well!
Author:  krmiller_usa [ Wed Apr 16, 2025 8:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Version 4.05.3
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