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| The Second Most Famous Military Expert? http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=23896 |
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| Author: | Blake [ Fri May 16, 2025 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The Second Most Famous Military Expert? |
Reading "Donnybrook" by David Detzer at the moment. He writes: In 1861, except for Lieutenant General Winfield Scott, Jefferson Davis was America's most famous military expert. Really? There are a lot of others who would be in that conversation. Joseph Johnston was just made a brigadier general in the US Army ahead of the already respected and well-known Robert E. Lee. You have Pierre Beauregard who fought very well in Mexico and was just appointed to head West Point. You also have guys like John Fremont, Ben McCulloch, and Albert Sidney Johnston. There are also a handful of "old generals" from the Mexican War like Robert Patterson and David Twiggs. Who is the second most "famous military expert" in 1861 then? |
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| Author: | Robert Frost [ Sat May 17, 2025 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Second Most Famous Military Expert? |
I'm not sure what Detzer's definition of "expert" entails, but from a tactical standpoint, I would say Hardee. His "expertise" benefited him little, however. |
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| Author: | M. Johnson [ Sat May 17, 2025 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Second Most Famous Military Expert? |
I believe it would have to be an old general from the Mexican War as the others listed were only known in the army circles. You cannot leave G.B. McClellan off the list. He served well in the previous war and was sent to Europe to observe the Crimean War for the army. He also invented a rather famous saddle for the military before the Civil War and published his reflections on the European war. |
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| Author: | Steve Griffith [ Sun May 18, 2025 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Second Most Famous Military Expert? |
The author wrote "1861" and I am guessing he meant before Bull Run. But taken as a whole the second most famous military expert by the end of 1861 would have to be Pierre Beauregard after taking Sumter and winning at Bull Run. Pre-Sumter I don't think an answer exists but I lean towards Albert Johnston as the commander of the most famous unit in the US Army at that point. |
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| Author: | mihalik [ Sun May 18, 2025 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Second Most Famous Military Expert? |
I guess Davis could be considered a military expert due to his West Point and Mexican War background. The "famous" part probably stems from his service as secretary of war under President Franklin Pierce. |
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| Author: | Quaama [ Mon May 26, 2025 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Second Most Famous Military Expert? |
Davis was a capable commander and showed his skills in the Mexican-American War. Although Commander-in-Chief of the CSA, he was smart enough to leave the military decisions to his generals, like Lee. Lee, of course, had a spotless record at West Point; Davis, not so. Davis was court-martialed during his first year at West Point ("He capped it off that summer by managing to get himself court-martialled for being caught - visibly intoxiated, it might be added - inside Benny Haven's tavern, a notorious local dive that was strictly off limits to cadets." Woodworth, S.E.). During his second year he was placed under arrest for his part in the Eggnog Riot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggnog_riot) although no charges were filed against him on that occasion. I can't defend the claim that "Jefferson Davis was America's most famous military expert [after Scott]". That just doesn't seem right in view of the way Lee, and others, were regarded at the time. Still, I regard Davis as a man of high intelligence. His The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government (https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19831/19831-h/19831-h.htm) remains the most cogent argument I have seen to explain succession. It's also interesting to see the main events of the war written from his unique perspective. 51% gave it 4/5 or 5/5 in reviews on goodreads (16% gave it 1 or 2). |
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