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| Supply Wagon Discussion http://www.wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8090 |
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| Author: | Sean Turner [ Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Supply Wagon Discussion |
Or not, depending on whether anyone else is interested! [8D] My question is: do we need wagons with limited amounts of small arms ammo? As in, did the armies of this era run out of small arms ammunition in the battles we are re-fighting in these games? Or should wagons have unlimited amounts of small arms ammo? I freely admit this question comes from a Reb-centric point of view where there never seem to be enough wagons. Well, at least full ones! [:I] But mainly I'm just testing my impression that units ran out of small arms ammo but not usually the army, as opposed to artillery ammo which could be in *very* short supply at times. If we need a proposal to kick around: Option 1 -- wagons exist on the map to re-supply regiments but have an unlimited capacity. They must still be protected and in range to re-supply and of course are still subject to capture. Option 2 (and I think this has been kicked around before and is a Pandora's Box): additionally to Option 1, give the wagons artillery ammo, which <u>is</u> limited. This means tracking each battery's "caissons" (or simply allowing batteries to go low/out as infantry/cavalry units do) but is still generic enough to allow "arty points" instead of needing ammo for each gun type. Maj Gen Sean Turner 3rd Cavalry Division, "Yankee Thrasher" I Corps Army of Alabama |
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| Author: | Jefferson H. Davis [ Sat Jul 16, 2005 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I think there is a definate need for an upgrade to the engine here....I am presently writing rules for my campaign which will bring these issues into play on a strategic-operational level, which could really coause big headaches for some field commanders in the tactical battles.....Regards, Hank |
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| Author: | KWhitehead [ Sat Jul 16, 2005 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Wagons do serve a purpose and simulate a real situation. However, you are right, armies seldom ran out of ammo. This was primarially due to something rarely included in the game, the army supply train. At Gettysburg is was, in our terms, off map. Normally, the divisional wagons would draw fresh supplies from this train. It is also why Longstreet's idea to march south around the Union left wasn't feasible. It would have cut the army off from its trains. They had to hold the Chambersburg Pike. The divisional wagons do show the problems of keeping front line regiments in small ammo when units were advancing rapidly. A regiment if it knew it was going into a fight ahead of time would draw 60 rounds of ammo per man. At maximum fire rate this mean a regiment could fight all out for 20 minutes before depleting there ammo. Normally they conserved their ammo and when they got low sent men back for more or in some case the whole regiment was withdrawn from the line while it got resupplied. Having the ammo wagons does a good job of simulating the limited ability to supply attacking troops (they move out of range of the wagons) and the limited amount of ammo that can be kept near the front lines. That said I do think in most battles the ammo wagons should be able to resupply themselves over time. In some the old board games this was handled by a unit representing the Army Trains which could replentish any wagon that came within its range. The Army Trains were also a "boat anchor" limiting the ability of the army to range all over the map. The HPS games do give the players more tools to manage ammo useage but still needs considerable improvement considering how damaging it is to run out of ammo. In most of the campaign battles they really need something representing the army trains. Either a large group of ammo wagons entering late in the battle or a new unit that can resupply wagons. They also need to change the "Low Ammo" so that it only uses half as much ammo to replentish as the "No Ammo" state. I also wish they would make resupply a manual operation rather than an automatic (whenever the wagon is close enough). This would significantly enhance the players ability to manage ammo. Artillery is a different problem. The batteries carried quite a bit of their ammo with them but the army trains also carried a significant amount of ammo for them. Normally the batteries used ammo from their caissons sending them back to its battalion or army trains when they were empty for resupply. The HPS games have improved ammo management significantly for artillery but it still needs more. The biggest problem I have run into with artillery ammo is one gun batteries using the same amount as six gun. In any scenario that the amount of artillery ammo is limited you are forced to send your one gun and sometimes two gun sections to the rear, which I don't think was the intent. They need to make the same change they did to infantry resupply to artillery useage and base it off the number of guns. BG. Kennon Whitehead Chatham Grays III Corps, AoM (CSA) |
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