American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

I had the same reflexion when I learned on the release of this title.
Many officers of the Civil War participated in the Mexican-American War and gained experience there.

I support M. Peters suggestion that the Mexican-American War should be added to the titles of this Club.

Col. Harold Lajoie 2/I/AotM, CSA.

I have to disagree, I feel the place for the Mexican war title at CCC, if members want to play with opponents then they should join the CCC. MAW is part of the EAW series which CCC supports. Shouldn't then this club be called American Wars of the 19th Century then?[V]

<b><font face="Georgia"><center>Major General
Glyn Hargreaves

Commanding Officer
3rd Cavalry
Division, III Corps.
AoA


</center></font id="Georgia"></b>

I too think that MAW belongs in the CCC (only). The ACWGC is rather "mono-thematic". The ACW is a special interest of many of the members here. Conversely, the CCC is already focused on multiple wars with multiple armies, from the French & Indian War to the War of 1812. Adding the MAW makes no difference.

That both the PCC and the MBC exist parallel with one another and support the same games is a result of the particular history of these two clubs whose leadership was at loggerheads for many years. It is not a model to be approved of, let alone a precedent for the relationship between the ACWGC and the CCC. These two clubs have a history of rather cordial relations. There is no reason for them to fight over a game.







Gen. Walter, USA
<i>The Blue Blitz</i>
3/2/VIII AoS

West Point Class of '01

I agree that the MAW should not be part of the ACW Club stable of games, same as with the American Revolution.

However, I would not resent if MAW owners advertised for opponents in the "Opponent Finder" forum. However, they should not get points for promotion within the ACW Club.

However, some may object to cluttering up the posts in that forum.

BG Ross McDaniel
2nd Bde, 3rd Div, III Corps, AoG, CSA

When asked "Is it worth risking my life to defend my property?", I ask "Is it worth risking your life to take away my property?" ---- "One cannot have a right to life without the right to defend it with deadly force." - Bruce Montague.
You don't have to go through life snarling, but it's knowing that you're willing to fight that keeps the other dogs out of your dish. -- anonymous
"Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." - Frederich Douglass

Hi,

I think the Mexican American War is more similar to the War of 1812
than to the Civil War, both historically and by game design. This was before the advent of the rifle-musket and rifled artillery. About the only technological improvement in weaponry over Napoleonic days was the revolver. I don't have strong feelings one way or the other, but I agree with the folks who think this one belongs in the CCC.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA

The "style" of the Mexican-American War was different than that of the ACW. First, it was fought in more of the European (Napoleonic) form of battles, than the style of the ACW. The Mexican Army was trained and led by some officers from Europe and 20 years before had won their independence from Spain, in a European style war. Santa Ana and many of their senior officers were trained and expected to fight in that style.

That many of the leaders of both armies in the ACW got their baptism of fire in the MAW is correct; this was a training ground.

On the other hand, General Winfield Scott was an officer (brevetted a Brig Gen in 1814) in the US Army during the War of 1812 and was instrumental in the early Indian Wars, especially the Seminole and Black Hawk War (as was Jefferson Davis) and he was the officer in charge during the Cherokee Trail of Tears.

Zachary Taylor was also in the War of 1812 and the Seminole War.

There is a connection on either side of the of the 1846 MAW and the War of 1812 and the 1861 ACW.

Included in the MAW game is also the War of Texas Independence, which is even earlier.

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
General, Commanding, Army of Ohio

ACWGC Cabinet Member
ACWGC Records Site Administrator
</b></font id="gold">

The CCC club certainly seems the most logical place for MAW, since this club already covers other pre-ACW titles, also it's clearly part of the EAW series as it uses the same game engine and scale.

But if the EAW company scale series were to be extended into the ACW - quite a logical step in order to cover smaller actions at a more suitable scale - then it would make sense to register games at this club rather than the CCC.


Brig. Gen. Rich White
3rd Brig. III Corps
Phantom Cav. Div.
ANV

Folks,
Ok, as much as it pains me to do so, I am gonna support Bill on this one (hope he doesn't fall dead from a heart attack or stroke upon reading this). First of all, why would the clubs fight over the game.....Both could include it and both could award points for playing the scenarios. 2nd: I have played all of these games, and they all feel basicly the same....somebody mentioned a different scale and engine....well the scale part was right....the engine is the same with a few extremely minor modifications.....Fact is, all of these game titles are really just one game covering different scenario packs....the differences are all minor. I have never read any manual other than Corinth, yet I know how to play them all....
I am not gonna get up in arms over this, it's not that important to me, but I will almost always side with the side that wants to loosen things up where this can be more fun. I personally think we should include CWG2 here also....it would no longer add much membership to the club, but it likely outsold all of these titles combined....For me the main problem is the idea of having to join another club to play with a reasonable number of opponents offered...I will make a stronger statement than Bill....I will NOT be joining the CCC (nothing against them)....This is where I play....Bill, I'll make this offer....If you want, I'll play you....we just won't get those precious points (I don't think it will kill me)....Regards,

BG Hank Smith
Army of Georgia
Smith's Corp Commanding

I can see the reason why not to include it, but I'm not going to join another club (too busy designing[:D]), but I would like to play MAW if it were offered. But I have no big opinion either way.

Lt. Col. Richard Walker
I Corps
Army of the Mississippi
2nd Brigade, 3rd Division
"Defenders of Tennessee"

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Glyn Hargreaves</i>
<br />I have to disagree, I feel the place for the Mexican war title at CCC, if members want to play with opponents then they should join the CCC. MAW is part of the EAW series which CCC supports. Shouldn't then this club be called American Wars of the 19th Century then?[V]

<b><font face="Georgia"><center>Major General
Glyn Hargreaves

Commanding Officer
3rd Cavalry
Division, III Corps.
AoA


</center></font id="Georgia"></b>

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Ditto for me. CCC = MAW

Nik Butler
Lt Col, 4/2/XXV, AOJ, Union Army

I hate to say it like this and truly mean no hostility towards any individual, but this is one of my areas where I have strong feelings. The fact that the club requires membership in order to play is in my opinion almost a crime. A member should be able to register any game he is playing against anyone....member or non member, and get his points....the non member would obviously not get points. I do not care about points, I don't think the non member would. How dare anyone say that another person has to join a club in order to play a game they have purchased. A person should join the club because they want to join the club, not because they were coersed to do so by being froze out of opponents if they do not.
I have enjoyed this club, but I have always from day one, resented the fact that I was forced to join in order to play....This club should not control use of this game, the CCC should not control use of The Mexican American War....Bottom line, that is why I offered to play Bill....I will not be coersed by this system again....I had little choice the first time, but I have always felt it wrong....It IS wrong! And once again, HOW DARE YOU!

BG Hank Smith
Army of Georgia
Smith's Corp Commanding

It would appear to me that nobody is forced to join a club to play a game. It's just for participating actively in the club and getting club points for playing that one joins.

However, for those who do join, and for the clubs they are in, it matters which games are allowed for registration in which club.

Gen. Walter, USA
<i>The Blue Blitz</i>
3/2/VIII AoS

West Point Class of '01

No one is forced to join the club to play the games. It is only if you want to participate in our rank/point system along with the role playing aspects that you are required to join. There are other places one can go to find opponents without belonging to a club. Gamesquad has a ladder but no requirement that you join it to advertise for opponents. I'm sure there wouldn't be much squawking if you choose to advertise here for opponents to other games but I think it is silly to expect the American Civil War Gaming Club to allow anyone to register any games with any opponents for points. It wouldn't take but one unscrupulous person to take advantage of that system.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jefferson H. Davis</i>
<br />I hate to say it like this and truly mean no hostility towards any individual, but this is one of my areas where I have strong feelings. The fact that the club requires membership in order to play is in my opinion almost a crime. A member should be able to register any game he is playing against anyone....member or non member, and get his points....the non member would obviously not get points. I do not care about points, I don't think the non member would. How dare anyone say that another person has to join a club in order to play a game they have purchased. A person should join the club because they want to join the club, not because they were coersed to do so by being froze out of opponents if they do not.
I have enjoyed this club, but I have always from day one, resented the fact that I was forced to join in order to play....This club should not control use of this game, the CCC should not control use of The Mexican American War....Bottom line, that is why I offered to play Bill....I will not be coersed by this system again....I had little choice the first time, but I have always felt it wrong....It IS wrong! And once again, HOW DARE YOU!

BG Hank Smith
Army of Georgia
Smith's Corp Commanding


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

General Mark Nelms
6/3/IX/AoO
"Blackhawk Brigade"
West Point Instructor
Union Cabinet Secretary

We have an opponent finder for other games, why not use it and leave the club list of games for the Civil War? A lot of noise over something that already has a solution.

MG D. Groce
AoP
V Corps
2nd Division
"Into the breach"

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by David Groce</i>
<br />We have an opponent finder for other games, why not use it and leave the club list of games for the Civil War? A lot of noise over something that already has a solution.

MG D. Groce
AoP
V Corps
2nd Division
"Into the breach"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This sounds like a reasonable proposition.

Col. Harold Lajoie 2/I/AotM, CSA.