<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br />Hi Scott!
Whilst Your points about occupation may appear correct on the surface, representation has alway been a tool of an occupying force. It's cheaper than maintaining a Military presence.
The Romans extended citizenship to their conquered neighbours after a period of occupation. These people were allowed to send candidates to the Senate but, the Senate was carefully weighted to ensure that Rome held the reigns of power AND there was the ultimate sanction of the Emperor - Senate could agree on a Law, but it was not Law until the Emperor signed it. If he refused to and they often did - the Law sank without a trace, regardless of who would benefit from it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So how come the South's power base continues to grow as the North's has declined over the past 50 years?? Of course we do have the veto override, but when you control both houses of the Congress and the Presidency you can pass your agenda rather easily.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br />Ireland had it's own Parliament under the British. Under dubious circumstances, it voted for the Act of Union in 1801 . . . in effect voting itself out of existence and Ireland was granted a limited number of seats at Westminster. It was the suspension of an Act for the duration of WW1, under which Ireland would have a new "devolved" Parliament, that was the final straw for a lot of Irish Leaders. The Act was due to be Law in 1916 - and once the suspension of same was confirmed the 1916 rebellion was inevitable.
The British Troops garrisoned within Ireland, were Occupying Troops to Nationalists and "Our" Troops to Loyalist, Unionists and the preferred Government spin. They were there to "Protect" citizens - not hold them in Line. Yet, at the first whiff of Independently intended action and self-determination . . . they arrive in force to demolish the centre of Dublin . . . in order to kill off an Uprising of a cupple hunnerd "Dissatisfied Citizens."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Again pointless to the argument except for another comparision as it is clear after 1880 the South has its own self-determination in place, especially in the supression of the African-Americans.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br />The Federal Garrisons dotted around the South are Troops serving the USA. The USA were the Northern side in the ACW. The CSA never officially dissolved NOR Surrendered. (Armies surrendered NOT the Executive.)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The current government in control is of Southern origin. This is the exact sectionalism garbage that drives this nation a part. Irregardless of whether it surrendered or not, it lost the war, but of course they cry of how they are under control of others, yet they enjoy the freedom of control over the government. Typical of the Lost Cause...they controlled it for some 35 years leading up to the Civil War and control it today, but cry victim.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br />As You have stated - seccession is legal/illegal depending on Yer viewpoint. Therefore - IMHO . . if it is a valid point that the US Government is legitimately excercising power over the South . . . then the CSA was/is equally legitimate and therefore, the Stance taken that the CS States are currently under occupation by the Northern States also stands.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Can you clarify what you are saying??
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br />The fact that limited State autonomy was returned to these States within 30 years of the War,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
They had full autonomy and had started the process of disenfranchisemnt of the African-Americans and started the enforcement of Segergation.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br />does not negate the Fact that, one of the Tenets of US Legislation is " Government for the People, of the People and <i> by the People</i>.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
This fact was not realized until two points...once when women had the right to vote and then when African-Americans could actually practice their right to vote. Also it was in the Gettysburg address and is not legislation and the quote is "Government of the people, by the people, and for the people." Again they clearly can participate in the election system, they can influence elections and set agendas for their states affairs.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br /> Self -determination - in other words. the Seccesionist states decided to leave the Union and determine their own Affairs.
They were not allowed to leave.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Is there a point??
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br />The Abolition of Slavery, was cynically used by the Lincoln Administration to mask their true Intentions . . the subjugation and Domination of the Southern States to their Will. Why?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The abolition of slavery came out of the fact that the casualties were so ghastly in the war and that Northern outcry had forced Lincoln to move from preservation of the Union to freeing of the slaves as to have all the deaths made meaingful. To fight the war and then let the South walk back in slaves and all would be an abomination to the deaths of thousands of troops.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br />One reason could be Greed and the easy access to the Frontier to the West. What untold Riches lay over there? Lincoln's cronies felt that Ye couldn't find out . . if Ye had to spend some of Your resources, looking over Your shoulder for Competition from CS Citizens, p'raps? [?]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So the South wanting to maintain a system in which a vast protion of the population is enslaved, have no free will, have no self-determenation, have no say in their lives, exsistence, and government all for the ability to make money, a profit, and live in a world of privlidge and plantations isn't?? Of course most of the South did not live this way, but the people who controlled it down there did for the most part. Besides most of the activites out West were taking place as the war happened. I doubt they were concerned about it.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by eireb</i>
<br />I read somewhere, that were it to have remained Independent - the CS would be the 5th largest World Economy today. I wish I could remember where I read it . . . 'twould be inneresting to see where the US rated! [;)]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Again most likely the whole world would be different and this appears to be more fun Lost Causer myths.
Something tells me you will continue on as, I believe you are taking enjoyment out of this. No problem, I enjoy it too.
<center>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com/"]<b>Colonel Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]
Commanding Officer
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/ACWGC/ANV"]Army of Northern Virginia
[/url]CSA
[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com/ACWGC/index.html"]Personal Command Tent[/url]
For the Glory of Virginia!!</center>