ACWGC Forums

I thought about posting this in the MDT, but thought better of it. What we members may say about our club and its future is not necessarily something we want the general public to read!

So where is the ACWGC going? At what kind of a future are we looking? Are we in good health, holding our own or in decline. This past year the Union Military Group has seen a slow paring in our numbers, mostly due to retirements and MIA's, few of which have been balanced by new recruits to the UMA. My latest culling of the UA numbers reveals that we are now hovering under 120. I can't speak for the Confederate side of the club since I haven't seen any real accounting for its members. But judging from activity on the MDT and Opponents Wanted forums there doesn't seem to be a lot of activity, certainly not as I can recall from years past!

The latest game from JTS, Campaign Petersburg, doesn't seem to have drawn much interest, although I'm unavoidably blind to the sales figures within the club. And JTS's announcement that all future games and updates will not be supported in Windows XP may have dampened the "Old Guard's" capabilities. I'm 73, still an avid member, but now I'm facing having to buy a new computer and operating system to continue my viability to play! Not a happy state of affairs as far as that goes.

As for the "Old Guard" there are a lot of us who came up with Avalon Hill in our youth who are now beginning to struggle with the rigors of time, manifested in many different ways, both physical and mental.

The gaming world in general is overly imbued with the glitz and power of new machines, incredible special effects and immediate satisfaction within the Internet. Who wants to wait around for an e-mail from an opponent, when you can shoot the hell out of him in the next instant with a click of the mouse. The new generation of gamers have no patience for involving themselves with the slow, staid environment of the ACWGC. We certainly derive satisfaction from it because we used to sit around tabletops for hours pushing cardboard counters in our youth, but they can't see the value or understand the world of patience.

So where are we going? What is the future of the ACWGC? What do you see happening to this club the next five years? Are we eventually just going to go out the door one by one until no one is left? What do you propose should be done, if anything, to prolong or re-invigorate this fading bit of enjoyment?

Or do you think I shouldn't have brought up the subject at all?

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General Jos. C. Meyer, ACWGC
Union Army Chief of Staff
Commander, Army of the Shenandoah
Commander, Army of the Tennessee
(2011-2014 UA CoA/GinC)

We are having a difficult time with recruiting waning and a somewhat "older" membership, although Joe is MUCH younger than me.

On the positive side is the continuing updating of the titles by JTS and the excellent support from JTS, by Rich Hamilton.

We have discussed recruiting for many years and have tried a variety of devices to boost membership, some worked better than others.

We have been a club for around 20 years and I predict it will continue for a number of years more, before we would close the doors. Over the years, we have seen the demise of a couple of sister clubs, mostly due to lack of membership and participation But is all those cases a dedicated group of members plugged away until the end.

This club continues to have a strong support base of members that volunteer to help guide and move the club along and as long as that support continues, the club will remain a viable force.

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General Ernie Sands
President ACWGC -Sept 2015- Dec 2020
7th Brigade, 1st Division, XVI Corps, AoT
ACWGC Records Site Admin

"If you do not know where you are going, any road will take you there."

Although a Civil War buff and frequent visitor to our eastern battlefields, I have not played a JTS Civil War game in some time.
There was a time when it was all I played and I had many games going at the same time.
Many of the players who were in the club when I joined seem to have left or they just don't post anymore.
I can remember several very interesting guys who posted all the time.
It would be interesting to see who is still playing the games at the club. Those stats must be available to whoever is in charge.

The last few years, I have been playing all the JTS Napoleonic and Panzer battles games with several new and old opponents.

I think what turned me off regarding the Civil War games was the last two games.....Overland and Petersburg.
I bought Overland and played it a few times and I was not impressed. As in real life, the South did not stand a chance.
I had no interest in playing or buying Petersburg at all.........I could never understand the demand for that title. The war was over.......how could battles about Petersburg be interesting?
I have heard rumors for years that there is a game in the works about the Battles in the Valley. That would have been a better choice than Petersburg.

What turned me off with the club was instituting a ban on retired former members from posting political opinions.
I always though different points of view were very interesting and was disappointed when club made its decision to ban that sort of thing.
I thought those discussions gave the club life.

As for me, I too consider myself "Old Guard" also, a wargamer for over 55 years. I do ask myself sometimes how much longer I will be playing.
Every time I buy a game or book on a particular battle, I wonder who will get these when I am gone.

Recently, a new Facebook site has opened for JTS games and it is very popular. Many familiar names have joined and are competing and chatting.
There are no records kept.......just guys getting together and playing JTS games via pbem. I think its a great place to find guys who actually want to play.

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Lt. Gen. C. N. Matthews
Pickett's Infantry Division, I Corps,
Army of Northern Virginia, CSA

Hi, Joe,

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I don't think it is a lack of interest in wargames. One thing that really surprises me is how successful board wargames still are in the age of computers, judging by Boardgamegeek, Consimworld and other websites. One thing that disappoints me is the limitations of the Tiller system given features that made SSI games popular in the 80s when my computer was a mere 64K. My hope is that someone like Berto will make the system more attractive to newcomers before the Yankee government turns me into soylent green.

As to lack of input to the Tavern, my favorite threads have always been those involving gameplay and engine improvements, and after twenty years those have been pretty much run into the ground. What else is there to say?

As to other Civil War computer games, I have yet to find another system, be it tactical or strategic, that scratches my itch. Yet look at these board wargames!

https://boardgamegeek.com/wargames/browse/boardgame

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MG Mike Mihalik
Forrest's Cavalry Corps
AoWest/CSA

I can remember when this club had over 700 members, and maybe 400 of them was actually active in gaming. Every time this club had a dispute, we lost members. There was the dispute over whether or not cursing and dirty jokes would be allowed on our forums, when people who ran our data bases got mad and left - taking their data base with them, the rift over making posts by former members, etc. In every instance, we lost members and didn't gain any. In the process, a major draw of the club went away. We used to make up stories, raid taverns (forums), have constant tournaments, play act, post turn by turn battle results. That kind of energy disappeared. Why? I don't know. Maybe its a different generation with different values than us old guys. I think that this club has been in decline for years and there is no turning it around unless some new hotshot ACW game comes out. I'm kinda sympathetic to what Matthews said previously. I love history and I love the ACW, but I play these games for entertainment, not to repeat history. These games need historical scenarios and also competitive made up scenarios to make them competitive when real life wasn't. I've always been first in line to buy the new ACW game but I haven't bought Petersburg because I can't imagine it being competitive, but I will buy it - some day.

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Gen Ned Simms
3/XVI Corps/AotT
Blood 'n Guts hisself, a land lovin' pirate. Show me some arty tubes and we'll charge 'em.
VMI Class of '00

Petersburg was a perk of my new position as CWB Lead Programmer.

But before that, I purchased every single CWB title. All were no-brainers. Petersburg, no exception. Forget the cost, disregard the play balance. I simply must have them all!

Ever since I was designing my own, crude and simplistic, ACW board war games in the mid 1960s, I have daydreamed about something very much like the JTS Civil War Battles series. Games/simulations at the regimental/battery level depicting every significant engagement of the American Civil War. Literally, for me, the JTS CWB series is a life-long dream come true!

When given the opportunity to program the series, I jumped at the chance. Another no-brainer.

Time permitting (my CS responsibilities consume most of my energy and time), both coding and playing, I intend to have my fun with this. For the rest of my days, I am so thrilled to ride this horse to the end.

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Civil War Battles Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Campaign Series Lead Programmer, https://cslegion.com

Microsoft end-of-lifed Windows XP in spring of 2014, years later than originally planned. They stuck with XP for as along as they felt they could. We too remained committed to supporting WinXP, but eventually it was just too burdensome.

Some factors in deciding to drop WinXP support:

Security. It is quite unsafe anymore to run a networked WinXP PC. I ran my old XP box off the network, and relied on the "sneakernet" (thumb drives) to ferry files from my development system to my XP system, and back again. What a hassle!

System death. My old WinXP box gave up the ghost early this year. Can one buy a refurbished WinXP box, much less a new one? Well, I suppose I could try eBay, or rummage sales or estate sales, but ... er, no, not really my thing.

WinXP not available commercially. Could I commit one of my other systems to running XP? Could I buy a new system to install and run XP on? Good luck trying to purchase an XP license. Good luck trying to activate a new XP install. No can do.

Or maybe one could, but only by special arrangement with Microsoft. No doubt there are big IT shops with staff to spare to deal with the special licensing, the work-arounds, and other issues. I am a staff of ... one. I really do have better things to do with my limited time.

Run WinXP in a virtual system? I have three virtual system hosts, one running VMware Workstation Pro, two others running Oracle VirtualBox. I tried and tried to get WinXP to run virtualized on these virtual system hosts, but in every attempt I was stymied. Might I get on the phone with Microsoft Tech Support to work through the issues? Yes, but at what cost? (And see my comments above about limited staff.)

Code development. In the CWB development environment, Microsoft Visual Studio, WinXP is special cased, more and more isolated. What is the incentive for Microsoft to continue supporting WinXP software development? Just the opposite, there is disincentive for them to do so. We might anticipate MS pulling the plug on XP in this context too at any time.

New hardware standards are emerging. New software capabilities appear. (For example, 4K monitor, Hi-DPI displays.) Microsoft updates Win10 (and for a time, also Win7 & Win8.1) regularly. Stuff breaks mysteriously. Is this new glitch in the latest CWB builds somehow related to XP cruft? Too many variables! For peace of mind, how about we just yank any trace of XP from the code altogether.

A JTS customer reports an issue, for example a crash bug or graphics glitch, running the game on his XP system. Because I lack an XP system, I can't replicate the issue here. If I can't see the issue myself, how can I effectively support the customer, when the issue is OS-based?

If I don't have an XP system, how can I test XP compatibility before releasing a new game or update to the public?

I could go on ...

Recent surveys show that fewer than 5% of the JTS player base still runs XP. That includes XP owners who have Win7 or later systems besides. We can infer that the number of die-hard XP-only owners is a vanishingly small fraction (2%? 1%?) of the overall player base.

For so many reasons -- time, expense, security, hassles, etc. -- we reach the point where continuing our commitment to support XP makes little to no sense.

Time Marches On. So too must we.


Nobody is taking away your ability to play earlier versions of these games on your existing hardware. Yes, you will be unable to play future updates in the series. System compatible opponents will become fewer and fewer. Sorry for that.

Incidentally, for testing purposes, I bought a pretty decent refurbished (used) Win10 box from Frys this past summer -- for a mere $110. (Frys continues to send me weekly e-mail occasionally offering this or that refurbished system for sale. Other computer sellers do so too.) For my purposes, this new system is great. I shunned the idea of refurbished systems before. Not anymore.

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Civil War Battles Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Campaign Series Lead Programmer, https://cslegion.com

RECRUITING IDEAS:

I'm a relative newcomer to the club, but a veteran wargamer and business owner. These are just some ideas that I thought of for recruiting new members.

Note that it would be VERY helpful if the club leadership could approve some sort of info paper or flyer that all of us could use in our recruitment efforts.

IDEAS:

1.. Maybe we can reach out for recruits through the numerous re-enacting organizations ? Their members are obviously “into” the ACW.

2. Do any of the War gaming conventions have an opportunity for distributing flyers or do they publish any sort of newsletter?

3. What if each existing member got on the website of universities in his/her state and looked for any kind of simulations club or the Army ROTC detachment.

Jim Boling

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J.L. Boling
General, USA
General-in-Chief
United States Army

Hello Dukemat

What is the name of the FB page you mention in your post?

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General Walter A. Dortch
Commander -/4/V AotP

JTS wargame opponent group

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JTSOppGroup/

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Lt. Gen. C. N. Matthews
Pickett's Infantry Division, I Corps,
Army of Northern Virginia, CSA

Thanks for the info!

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General Walter A. Dortch
Commander -/4/V AotP

Like Jim Boling, I’m relatively new, having just joined the club at the end of this summer. Though I fully sympathize with those who grieve over what the club once was, for what it’s worth, this newbie is very glad to have found it – even in its present configuration.

From the personal touch of 1:1 training by Gen Danner in my UMA training, to advanced 1:1 training by Gen Meyer, to forming new online friends wearing both blue and grey who freely share tips and advice, it’s been an awesome experience for me. Looking forward to doing whatever I can to help the club not only survive, but thrive again. (Though my lack of technical competence forced an early release from my ADC duties

Perhaps it might be worth pitching the club online to sites like civilwartalk or computer wargamers, solitaire wargamers, etc. on Facebook to recruit new members. Reading some comments on one of those sites is what brought me into the club.

Salute.

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Gen. Scott Eichelberger, ACWGC
Commander, 7/4/V, AotP
UMA Superintendent 2020-2021
Union Cabinet Secretary 2020-2022

Regarding the Tiller games player base we must recognize that we come down from the high tide, many old members drop out but few newcomers can counter this. But I think at some point the decline will stop as the updates for the old games to the Petersburg level will revive the series and bring more people in or back because of this.

Overland was already a bit special but of course Petersburg departed from the usual way of scenario design considerably, but that just had to be done to properly cover the campaign. It's a special title but I think that is also its strength as it's different from what we had. I think over time this title will be appreciated more than now. Of course that won't help people who pick raisins and want games with their side in advantage, but even they should recognize that neither Overland nor Petersburg are a cakewalk for the Union, they are hard earned victories that cover many interesting scenarios. Here the Rebels can really show how good they are as the Union isn't as incompetent as before.

Dropping Windows XP was overdue, a system that even is developer dropped isn't something you should use anymore, especially on the web, and sooner or later a new crate is unavoidable. And a refurbished Win7 crate should be possible for all members, even those with small pockets.

That the world of games has changed, or better expanded, is undeniable, but that does not mean old stuff gets dropped easily. With all the 90's pc games one could have expected to see the boardgames die as many pc games were just heavily expanded boardgames that were so much easier to play. But boardgames are still around and looking at the CW sector can provide interesting games not covered by any pc games at all like games on the operational level.


In my eyes the club has to recognize the need for adjustment, let me be clear that I do not mean lowering any standards we have, we need to keep the current level as that makes the club something special.
- There are things outside the club that we can't do anything about, people have less money and less time and so think twice about were to invest them. If one of the new updated titles(not Petersburg that is to special in design) could be brought in with a discount instead of the current Ozark title it would already be a help as this can introduce interested people to the latest level for the games.

- An introduction article that explains how new members are introduced into the club and what this membership is about might be helpful. I thought twice about joining the club as it seemed to have a certain demand and I wasn't sure I was up to meet it. Such article could be placed in the UMA respectively VMI webpages but might also be good in the flyer that Captain Boling suggested. Such a flyer(in PDF a suggest) could be placed as download here but could also be used by all members to attract new members over all kind of channels(conventions, reenacting, boardgames, etc.). I think that is a pretty good idea from Captain Boling.

- Last but not least, we need to expand the games that the clubs support, surely not any crap that uses the Civil War as playground but only games that have a certain class. As pc games are covered we should think about other game sector, boardgames for example. On boardgame series comes to my mind, the GCACW series:
https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/GCACW_Series
It would cover new ground as it depicts the operational level and sits between the Tiller and the grand strategy titles like Civil War II etc. that the club currently supports.


If these things are done, raising the number of Tiller boys by showcasing the new level of the series, actively promoting and assuring interested people that this club is the place to go, and expanding the supported games to draw new members from a broader base, then I can see the number of club members raising again.
If not we have to settle for a smaller membership and likely the Union will go the way of the CSA and shrink it's number of armies.

Now the posts of the newer members seem to support that we are on a good path. So I do not see any reasons to leave it to stop the decline, especially not by throwing standards over board that are long standing cornerstones of the club or introducing new purposes to the club like being a platform for political discussions(that it never was nor meant to be). These may indeed to lead to more members but what kind of membership would this be? It would just lead to a downward spiral until the club is just full of casual players who are not up to advanced gameplay and morons misusing their membership for letting of steam from real life. They can to this behavior anywhere, we are up to much higher standards and we should stay there.

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Lieutenant General Christian Hecht
Commander I Corps, Army of the Potomac

The ACWGC is an exclusive PBEM players only gaming club. Or at least it used to be until the Club, without fanfare, introduced the new "Observer Corps" to allow non-PBEMer members (like me) to join and make forum posts. Despite the new member category, I'd bet there are plenty of "lurkers" who visit the Club fora and who would like to participate, as posters only, not necessarily as PBEMers, but who still think they can't.

Would promoting more non-PBEMer participation "lower standards"? Maybe. Does the (perceived) high bar of "you must play PBEM in order to join the club, or join in forum discussions" dampen the member count? Yes.

Many, many surveys have shown that, by far, most PC war gamers play solo (vs. the AI, or H2H solitaire) only. JTS' surveys confirm that fact. Among the JTS player community, solo players outnumber PBEM-only or PBEM-occasionally players by more than five to one.

If you could somehow change the perception that this is a club for PBEMers only, I think that right there will suck in more Forum participants. Some of whom in time will morph into "full-fledged" Club members, PBEM play and all.

Beyond that, these added suggestions:

• The Club should have its own Facebook page. So much promotional Web activity has moved to Facebook. (Unfortunately, "ACWGC" is already taken. Amherst College Women's & Gender Center. )
• Have Club spokesmen drop by other war gaming fora from time to time to invite new members into the Club. I see where the Wargamers Club for Gentlemen drops in for visits at the Matrix, Slitherine, and Grogheads (and other?) fora to publicize their existence. I don't recall the ACWGC ever doing this.
• Yes, expand the scope of the "approved" Club titles beyond just the JTS games. AGEOD's American Civil War, also Civil War II; the Scourge of War series; WCS' Forge of Freedom, and Brother Against Brother (although both series may have died); Gary Grigsby's WBTS; and perhaps others I may have missed -- all of these are "serious", "high standard" ACW PC war games that merit Club formal approval.
• Yes, open up the Club also to board war gamers. Like non PBEMers, over time board war gamers too might morph into "full-fledged" PBEM occasionals, at least.

You want more Club members? Open the doors wider!

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Civil War Battles Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Panzer Battles & Panzer Campaigns Lead Programmer, https://wargameds.com
Campaign Series Lead Programmer, https://cslegion.com

I guess we could formally put the Observer Corps and its purpose into the club rules so everyone is aware how to join it.

Regarding facebook, don't have a clue of it but maybe we could do a page that covers all 3 clubs with appropriate subsections? This way one that stumbles over one of the clubs might also take a look at the other 2.

I had posted about the ACWGC on some other board like Matrix, etc. but of course someone that does this with a certain regularity and a more promotional approach might yield more new members.

Other CW pc games are already covered:
http://www.unioneaglesonline.com/UA_Rec ... itment.htm
Maybe we should make this more clear.

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Lieutenant General Christian Hecht
Commander I Corps, Army of the Potomac