Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)
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I proprose a petition
https://wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=16543		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Al Amos [ Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  I proprose a petition
I so very much like the reduced sighting range introduced in the newest updates in some of the titles. It allows a more realistic feel to the game and allows you to try different movements against your opponent knowing they can't see 60 hexes away.

I would like to start a petition begging Bill to tackle one title at a time and reduce the sighting range.

20 hexes is @ 2 kilometers. That's longer than artillery ranges and cavalry charges, so tactical surprise in the open would be rare. Plus at that range we still get the see the uniform details so we see more than we should, that can't be helped, but Bill please stop us from seeing regimental cuffs and collars at 6 kilometers, over 3.5 miles!

I know it's a big request, but the change really does breathe new life into the games.

Sincerley,
Al
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
Do you know which titles got the reduced sighting range?
Author:  Al Amos [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
Waterloo, Borodino and I think the two Pens.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
Ah, what I thought, all non Bill Peters games.
There was also discussion about view ranges over at the ACWGC:
http://wargame.ch/board/acwgc/viewtopic ... =binocular

I wouldn't mind if it is shortened.
Although I would prefer that the view routine we have ingame is just drastically adjusted. We have the function that units show up as question mark, but that only happens at the near end of the view distance what is pretty unrealistic. That I can see 6-7km and make out a mass moving towards me is just fine, but making out details like 7XX men, unit type, dress, etc. is doubtful at best.
Author:  Cezary Pluskwa [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
:frenchsalute:

Hi Guys,

Good idea! Here he gives the visibility data for targets in terrain: :thumbsup:

parts of the face (eyes, nose, mouth), details of weapon and equipment, 100meters
details of uniforms (buttons, belts), 150 - 200m
carabiners, muskets, color and parts of uniforms, 250 - 300m
cannons, howitzers, 500m
arm and leg movements 500 - 600m
outlines of human figures 700 - 800m



And more in the style of the epoch it is written: :frenchcharge:

At a distance of 2,000 steps, you can barely see the gleam of weapons in infantry!
You can see units of infantry and the cavalry, but it is not yet recognizable that they are people on horses!
At 1500 paces you can see infantry units, and in the cavalry you can recognize that there are people on horses!
By 1000 paces, you can even tell the head from the hull!
The whole person can only be seen at 600 paces!
From 300 to 400 steps, you can recognize faces, uniform collars and lace!
And by 70 to 100 steps you can see eyes that seem to be points!

Best, :frenchvive:
Author:  Garret Fitzgerald [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
I agree. Good point.
Author:  Al Amos [ Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
I took one of Bill's Wagram scenarios and (after renaming the scn and pdt files, so nothing will be overwritten) shortened the visibility ranges to 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 and 20 hexes, I didn't change any times so sunrise and sunset uses the aforementioned ranges for sighting. Also, I've never been a fan of the different pdt values (sorry Bill) so I took the movement rates and movement terrain costs from Waterloo Single pdt file and copied pasted them into this new pdt file.

So you end up with a great scenario designed by Bill with the "new" 20 hex max sighting range (which really enhances games with big maps) and the movement effects of Waterloo.

Note: I do like the movement rates from Waterloo, they're simple and I like the concept of every title having a constant movement chart so you don't have to relearn or refamiliarize yourself with each title. No offence, Bill. Love your work. You rock.

This also shows how flexible John's game engine is in allowing players to tweak games to their desire. Just remember save whatever files you're playing with under a new name, essentially you're makin a new version of an existing scenario.

Have fun.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
Nice work.

Really haven't tracked the PDT values but that last patch round from Bill should have aligned values like movement, if the differed at all. Some purposely not like artillery values but that has historical reasons(what is noted in an PDF file), an extra flavor I like very much.
I would rather consider taking Bills 15 or 10 min values and apply them to the 4 non Bill Peters games, I think the majority is rather used to Bill's values.
Author:  Al Amos [ Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
To each his own.
Author:  Al Amos [ Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
If one wanted to be creative, one could use the weather lines to show other factors that effect combat, for instance...

So in a scenario that is 8 hours long, say after 5 hours one could place a line titled FATIGUE and place different modifiers affecting combat.

or extreme heat, cold, dust storms (in Egypt).
Author:  Richard Bradshaw [ Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
The Waterloo line of sight that requires a unit to be in the hex to see what he can see is brilliant! The old way of clicking on a hex to see what can be seen from it is like having a soothsayer in your army.

Whilst upgrades are being looked at, can the SUPERMAN status of skirmishers be eliminated?!?!
Author:  Garret Fitzgerald [ Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
I agree Richard.

The Civil war games have that feature.

I am hoping all the games get brought up to date soon.

anything I can do to help?

(I'm not that great on the technical side of doing things)
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
Richard Bradshaw wrote:
Whilst upgrades are being looked at, can the SUPERMAN status of skirmishers be eliminated?!?!

In what way?
Author:  Garret Fitzgerald [ Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
I've noticed that routed skirmishers, in a melee, usually inflict casualties on the assaulting formed units.

That doesn't seem right
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I proprose a petition
Well the casualties that skirmishers inflict on formed units in a melee can already be seen as pretty high. I guess that even the routed status that halves the melee power does lower but not eliminate casualties versus skirmishers even when they are routed.
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