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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 4:23 pm 
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Gentlemen,
here a little contribution to improve our beloved Napoleonic Battles series.
Feedback or comments are welcome, please post them here or PM me.


From the readme:
This is the initial release of HIM 1.0 - Campaign Bautzen, it focuses on the OOBs, specifically on the quality levels and weapons that are in need of correction in some spots. It is based on patch version 4.04.
To install just copy the .oob files into the "OOBs" folder of your Campaign Bautzen installation, if getting asked to overwrite just confirm.
In this mod is also a the folder "ORIGINAL OOBs 4.04", it contains the original OOBs just in case you want to switch back.

****************************************************************************************************************
Changes
French & Allies:
- French line regiments 134 to 156 have the quality aligned to C and the weapon type to aligned M what is the standard musket. Exception is 4/134 listed in 3 OOBs, afaik the original regiment only had two bat. and the entries for the 4/134 are either a typo or a newly raised bat., that is why it keeps a D quality rating & the M weapon type.
Reason:
All regiments from Cohorts of the National Guard(135-156) had trained since early 1812, so they likely had the training to keep up with an average unit. Consider too that 11 of them received battle honors at Lutzen/Bautzen, many for both battles, so they had also the moral to keep up with average unit. The performance they should in the Spring Campaign is unlikely to be achieve in the game if the ratings are not even up to the Russians, not to speak of the even better rated Prussians.
Note that Line regiment 134 was formed from the Garde de Paris and that had been raised in 1802, a unit that had higher requirements then regular line units and was made up of former military personal.
Another reason is that the D ratings and conscript muskets seem to have been carried over from Campaign Leipzig and are based on the overall corps performance there. But these values can't be carried back to Bautzen. All should been rated & equipped equally as anything else doesn't seem to make sense.

- Saxon Zastrow cuirassier regiment rated down to A.
Reason:
With A+ Saxon cuirassier regiments are rated like 1809, problem is that the Zastrow cuirassiers went to Russia and participated heavily in the Battle of Borodino, after the retreat from Russia it had to be rebuild. Different is the Leib regiment that didn't participate in the Russian campaign and stayed home. So the rating of the Leib regiment seems OK but that of the Zastrow cuirassiers not, even if we say that it was rebuild also from remnants of the Garde du Corps that went to Russia too, it were surely too few men to form a unit of quality similar to the Leib regiment. You already see this as the regiment has squadrons of around 100men while the Leib regiment has them around 150 men. So they scratched together what they had, and that is surely not on the level of the Leib regiment.

- Saxon Guard Grenadier regiment rated up to A.
Reason:
Was not participating in the Russian campaign and stayed home. Like its counter part in the cavalry should retain a high rating.

- Saxon Jäger company rated up to B.
Reason:
Was not participating in the Russian campaign and stayed home. Should be rated better then the normal light Saxon infantry.

Prussians:
- 3rd Prussian Infantry battalions rated down to C.
Infantry battalions(III bats. that have the reserve infantry uniform) are lowered to C. This is because the Prussian infantry battalions were expanded in size. After the defeat of 1806 a Prussian infantry regiment was shrunk to 2 Grenadier-, 8 Musketier- & 4 Füsilierkompagnien, each with 150 men. That would give a bat. of around 600 men, looking at the OOB you usually see a strength of well beyond close to 800. That fits to the order of the King to enlarge the bat. of the infantry. Assuming that Krumper reservist were taking for this and not raw recruits, it is more then questionable what was left make make these 3rd musketier battalions. Even when saying they were also filled by Krumper reservist the quality of these have nothing in common with regular trained infantry. The Krumper system is here just the beginning of the system that the Germans had at the start of WW1, and even there the reserve units are rated a level lower.

Russians:
- Russian cavalry ratings adjusted.
18 dragoon regiment converted to other types and should be similar rated as the dragoons. This results in the following adjustments:
Cuirassiers Pskof and Starodoub rated down to C.
Uhlans Tchougouiev rated up to B, it was converted already in 1808.
Arasmass Uhlans is a unit is question as there seems to be no such unit but only the Arasmass Jägers, is the name or unit type wrong?

****************************************************************************************************************
Topics to be considered
French & Allies:
- Some Legere also some line regiments, possibly the 13th or 23rd who seems to have been neither in Spain nor Russia, and still have their regimental guns, could have different ratings and may be rated up to C above the D quality of many reformed infantry units. But at least a regimental history is needed to see the state they were really in because one has to ask why they were neither in Spain nor Russia. There are examples of units that seem to have been in a rather bad state despite being not dedicated to active field duty.


Prussians:
- Generally a question is whether the normal fusilier, genadier & musketier bats. should all be lowered one level because of the overall bat. expansion. Their size was set to about 600 men after the defeat of 1806. But the King order the enlargement of them in late 1812 or early 1813 what resulted in companies of about 200 men, that is 33% more. Does that justify a lower rating?

- With the enlargement of the regular infantry, even up to adding some 3rd bat. to some regular regiments, the question comes up of what men the reserve battalions were composed of. There were not that many Krumper reservists and if they had been used to enlarge the regular units the reserve units might only some if any at all, so an unknown amount of the men might be recruits. Besides this there must be a reason why so few(on all 5 bat.) have reached the field army in time for Bautzen if they only had to call up enough Krumper reservists. In the light of this is a C rating justified?

- Now there is also a question regarding the light Prussian infantry, it seems rather strange to have all the Fusiliers rated A on the level of Grenadiers while even the best light Infantry(The East Prussian Jäger Bat. and the Sliesien Schützen) are only rated B, even if these two use rifles instead of muskets. So should the Fusiliers be rated lower or the East Prussian Jäger and the Sliesien Schützen higher?


Russians:
- Russian infantry regiments are usually down to a single battalion but in the Autumn most are back to 2 bat. but are still rated at C. It seems strange that the manpower doubled(if not more) but the quality level was kept.
On the other had there seems to have been massive recruitment in 1812 so if they didn't get to the field armies for the Spring campaign there is the good chance that solid trained recruits filled the units for the Autumn campaign and by that kept the quality levels.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 3:47 pm 
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OOB V Corps gen. Lauriston of French Army, 15 April 1813, start of Spring Campaign.
33053 soldiers

OOB V Corps gen. Lauriston of French Army, 15 Mai 1813, after of battles of Halle and Leipzig.
ca. 27000 soldiers

OOB V Corps gen. Lauriston of French Army, 25 Mai 1813, Silesia, Sigesdorf (Zebrzydowa).
24573 soldiers

16 Division
151 Infantry Regiment 1183 soldiers
152 IR 2162
153 IR 2113

17 Div
146 IR 1519
147 IR 1979
148 IR 1745

18 Div
134 IR 1012
154 IR 1390
155 IR 1486
3 Infantry Foreign Regiment 748

19 Div
135 IR 1813
149 IR 2278
150 IR 2626

Artillery, Wagons 2212
Sappers 313

Cannons 12x12f. 54x6f.
Howitzers 4x6f. 19x24f.

OOB V Corps gen. Lauriston of French Army, 15 August 1813, Silesia, Goldberg (Złotoryja), start of Fall Campaign.
27718 soldiers, 2224 saddled horses, 1804 draft horses

Reinforcements of V Corps, 15 June - 15 August 1813.
6207 soldiers

Losses of V Corps, 15 August - 15 September 1813.
17857 soldiers

After the campaign in Silesia in August and September, the V Corps suffered significant losses, especially after the Battle of Katzbach, so C quality is a good decision for Spring Campaign.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:39 pm 
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More important Ney's III Corps. As Bill wrote in his notes to Campaign Leipzig:
"This includes Ney's III Corps which lost a large amount of its manpower at Lützen."
So III Corps took a beating in the Spring campaign. I assume it has been filled up with recruits for the Autumn campaign, because the low numbers at Bautzen show that even after shrinking all the regiments down to 3 battalions the numbers coldn'T be like we see at Leipzig, menpower must have come from somewhere, these units are just not made up of the National Cohort men of early 1812, and that is why D makes sense for Campaign Leipzig.
So the quality deteriorated and had to come down from somewhere, and that somewhere is C and so I rated them C for Campaign Bautzen.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 12:59 am 
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Agreed, but all VCorps infantry regiments are in that range from the 134th to the 156th, you wrote above. IIICorps of Ney's had only 8 infantry regiments from his all (28 infantry regiments, 76 battalions).

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2022 3:49 pm 
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OOB III Corps Marshal Ney of French Army, 15 April 1813, start of Spring Campaign.
61724 soldiers
76 baons
24 squadrons

OOB III Corps of French Army, 31 May 1813, Silesia.
25589 soldiers
3108 horses
Cannons 12x12f, 47x6f
Howitzers 4x6f, 21x24f


Losses of III Corps, Battle of Lutzen.
ca. 15000 soldiers

22, 23 May 1813, Battle of Bautzen.
4362 KIA
5841 WIA
136 POW

OOB III Corps of French Army, 5 August 1813, Silesia, start of Fall Campaign
38572 soldiers
62 baons
Cannons, howitzers 104

Reinforcements of III Corps, 20 June - 5 August 1813.
11439 soldiers

Losses of III Corps, 5 August - 1 September 1813.
6618 soldiers (719 KIA, 1234 POW, 4669 MIA) without 39 Infantry Division
1120 WIA without 39 ID

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:25 am 
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May I ask where the numbers for V & II Corps come from?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2023 6:22 am 
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ISBN: 978-83-7889-186-4
"Wielka Armia Na Dolnym Śląsku W 1813 Roku" Andrzej Olejniczak, Napoleon V, 2014. Polish book, author, publishing. "The Great Army in Lower Silesia in 1813".

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:32 pm 
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I have always seen the higher numbered regiments rated as per Conscript Line per Empire V. You just have to look at the performance of these troops at Lutzen.

If you upgrade the units you will have to reduce the Victory Conditions for the Lutzen and other scenarios accordingly as there will be fewer French routs and therefore harder for the Allies to win. Keep that in mind when you tweak values.

Good call on the Zastrow Cuirassiers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:42 pm 
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I also add in that every account I have ever read about the Battle of Lutzen talks about the high amount of losses for the French being attributed to lower training class. This from the Wiki article on the battle:

"Napoleon lost 19,655 men, including 2,757 killed and 16,898 wounded, while the Prussians lost at least 8,500 men killed or wounded and the Russians lost 3,500 men killed, wounded or missing,[7] although casualties may have been much higher.[5][6] By nightfall, the Tsar and Wittgenstein were hardly convinced that they had lost the battle.

So we are talking about a wide variance in losses. The French lost almost 20k while the Allies lost anywhere from 12-16k. That the French had to rely mainly on their infantry, due to a lack of cavalry, explains it.

The Allies seemed confident that the battle was more of a Draw than a French victory and an expensive one at that.

The elan of the Prussian army during the War of Liberation was always quite high. I know I will not be using these files. It goes against everything I have ever read on the battles.

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Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Prinz Peters von Dennewitz

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Honarary CO of Garde-Ulanen Regiment, Garde-Grenadier Kavallerie

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MDF, VP4LC, NRO, MTD, PR, MIM, NDM, CMR


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