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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 12:26 am 
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Since few of us have seen the Tiller version of Waterloo it's difficult to have a meaningful discussion. It's all a matter of getting familiar with the new game engine I think. The Full Barrett took some time to develop as an effective strategy in BGW and PTW. With time I'm sure a variant can be found for HPS games, I've had wonderful successes in NRC and similarly complete disasters there and at Eckmuhl aginst superior opponents that are more familiar with the new engine than I. HPS is a superior engine in terms of playability, no doubt about that, despite some major limitations but there is some life still in Bg.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 12:31 am 
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There is not very much similarity between the BG version and the HPS version of Waterloo.

The HPS Campaign Waterloo is like Waterloo on steroids!

<b><font color="gold">Ernie Sands
GdB,1er Brig,1eme Div,VI Corps,AdR
President, Colonial Campaign Club
</b></font id="gold">


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:31 am 
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Sounds like great potential for the development of the Full Barrett then. That's it, I'm sold on it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 3:03 am 
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My gripe isn't about how good/bad it is, or whether I win/lose; rather it's about how predictable the scenario has become. Without an element of variation I just don't get pleasure from playing games.

<font color="orange">Majoor Peter Robinson
Commander I Corps
[url="http://www.geocities.com/militaireacademie"]Koninklijke Militaire Academie[/url] Adjutant
3rd (Prince of Wales's) Dragoon Guards</font id="orange">


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:00 am 
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Ahhhh can anyone tell me what "Full Barrett" is? I still have no clue. [?]

Capitaine Ranson Lee
4ème Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
7ème Division d'Infanterie
IIèmé Corps d'Armee Nord


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:01 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tony Dobson</i>
<br />Chaps,

I think the main problem with "The Full Barrett" is it's effect on the Allied players willingness to play any Waterloo scenarios [:0]! We're all here to play games and, hopefully, enjoy them win or lose .... and I'm always happy to lose to a good player (see my record) [:I] . The problem is I, and I should think a high percentage of Allied Players, are not willing to play a Waterloo scenario as we already know the outcome ... there's just no point and we all lose out.

Come on guys .... think about it !



Lt.Gen. Tony Dobson
II Corps Commander
Anglo-Dutch Army
NWC President
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I refer the honourable gentleman to my posting of the 10th, and numerous other postings on this matter.

Nothing is written[:(!]

You Allied officers are too quick to throw in the towel. If it weren't for you British I'd be tempted to cross the floor and teach you how to do it! But I am sure that the shame of being instructed by a garlic eater would be too great for you rosbifs.[:D]

Good to see you are back on the field, trust all is well in the Dobson household

Cheers

Mark
VII Corps


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 6:12 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by SansSouci</i>
<br />My gripe isn't about how good/bad it is, or whether I win/lose; rather it's about how predictable the scenario has become. Without an element of variation I just don't get pleasure from playing games.

[orange]Majoor Peter Robinson
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Peter

Spot on.

The main fault with all of the BG games was that there was no scope, (time or space) for a significant element of manoeuvre. About the closest was QB (probably why it remains my favourite scenario playing either side). Abundant terrain to exploit, plenty of time even to change the direction of the attack. Not convinced about the objective hexes (but that goes for all games and I would prefer that they were taken out altogether; with the possible exception of exit hexes), but that's another issue.

The large map and reduced visibility sound good. Blucher and his aides no longer able to see all the way to Moscow from atop the hill at Ligny will be a huge improvement, allowing the French to pursue a whole variety of moves without observation by him.

Good job guys

Mark
VII Corps


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:16 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tony Dobson</i>
<br />Chaps,

I think the main problem with "The Full Barrett" is it's effect on the Allied players willingness to play any Waterloo scenarios [:0]! We're all here to play games and, hopefully, enjoy them win or lose .... and I'm always happy to lose to a good player (see my record) [:I] . The problem is I, and I should think a high percentage of Allied Players, are not willing to play a Waterloo scenario as we already know the outcome ... there's just no point and we all lose out.

Come on guys .... think about it !



Lt.Gen. Tony Dobson
II Corps Commander
Anglo-Dutch Army
NWC President
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Tony - well I do remember Paul Harris and others soundly beating the French in BGW. Paul had a way of playing that defeated the strategies like the Full Barrett.

Perhaps I should join the French army to give you a chance at victory?[:D]

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:19 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ranzzzz</i>
<br />Ahhhh can anyone tell me what "Full Barrett" is? I still have no clue. [?]

Capitaine Ranson Lee
4ème Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
7ème Division d'Infanterie
IIèmé Corps d'Armee Nord
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Its basically an all out assault on turn 1 on the British position with the intent of using every unit to wipe out the Anglo-Allied army.

In BGW this worked because the Objective VPs demanded that the Allies stand their ground. In the HPS game good luck! The Anglo-Allied army can actually maneuver over to join up with the Prussians earlier. The problem with this is that there are exit hexes for the French.

However, I dont think that the entire French army can exit from that exit hex so its going to be interesting to see how this all works out.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 12:18 pm 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ranzzzz</i>
<br />Ahhhh can anyone tell me what "Full Barrett" is? I still have no clue. [?]

Capitaine Ranson Lee
4ème Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
7ème Division d'Infanterie
IIèmé Corps d'Armee Nord
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Its basically an all out assault on turn 1 on the British position with the intent of using every unit to wipe out the Anglo-Allied army.

In BGW this worked because the Objective VPs demanded that the Allies stand their ground. In the HPS game good luck! The Anglo-Allied army can actually maneuver over to join up with the Prussians earlier. The problem with this is that there are exit hexes for the French.

However, I dont think that the entire French army can exit from that exit hex so its going to be interesting to see how this all works out.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Bill

Do you know whether the French exit hexes are to the north of the Allied position (direction of Brussels) or to the south of their own position (direction of Paris)[?]

If the latter that would definitely pose a problem.

Regards

Mark


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 1:03 pm 
Mark,

A little common sense, please.

Brussels = Victory

Paris = Defeat

Now, where do you think the exit hexes would be?

Colonel (ret) Al Amos
1er Dragoons
AdN


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 3:04 pm 
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Prior to all this hub-dub there has been a MOD we have used in another club for a Waterloo Campaign type of game. If the HPS map holds a candle to this one, trust me there is no Full Barret!! [:)] The MOD map is huge and offers so many opprotunities. Also, the Full Campaign some 350 turns in which members there who are members here are playing does not even need the French to levy a main attack at Ligny and Quarte Bras and offers maneuever on a grand scale.

So I look forward to comparing the two soon.....[:)]

<center>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[url="http://www.scott-ludwig.com"]<b>Generallieutenant Scott Ludwig</b>[/url]

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3. Infanterie-Brigade and Aide-du-Camp
I. Armee Korps
Heer am Niederrhein
[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com"]Preußische Armee[/url]

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Garde-Artillerie
[url="http://scott-ludwig.com/NWC/Prussia/Garde.htm"]Preußische Armee Garde-Brigade[/url]

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GroßHerzog von Saxe-Weimar
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2005 5:33 pm 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mark Eason</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ranzzzz</i>
<br />Ahhhh can anyone tell me what "Full Barrett" is? I still have no clue. [?]

Capitaine Ranson Lee
4ème Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
7ème Division d'Infanterie
IIèmé Corps d'Armee Nord
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Its basically an all out assault on turn 1 on the British position with the intent of using every unit to wipe out the Anglo-Allied army.

In BGW this worked because the Objective VPs demanded that the Allies stand their ground. In the HPS game good luck! The Anglo-Allied army can actually maneuver over to join up with the Prussians earlier. The problem with this is that there are exit hexes for the French.

However, I dont think that the entire French army can exit from that exit hex so its going to be interesting to see how this all works out.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Bill

Do you know whether the French exit hexes are to the north of the Allied position (direction of Brussels) or to the south of their own position (direction of Paris)[?]

If the latter that would definitely pose a problem.

Regards

Mark
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Mark,

Yeah, gotta second Al here. Its not that we are being sarcastic. The fact is that the VP exit hex is towards Brussels. It wouldnt be much of a game if all you had to do was march your army off the map to your rear?

Taking Brussels would have put the Anglo-Allies out of supply (Brits more than Dutch-Belgians/Hollanders/Hanoverians). Thus for the French to exit a hunk of units out of that exit location will give them alot of points. And frankly if they go for it its going to have to be carefully orchestrated as if you exit a portion of your army you leave the rest of the army in a diminished state. If you exit all of your army it would look kind of odd (but effective nonetheless I think).

My thinking is that the French will weigh the advantages of exiting units and do it as long as it doesnt leave the rest of the army in the lurch.

Or will the French do a Full Barrett for the exit hex? I am not sure and think that Wellington will be able to block any such move by such a large force in time for the Prussians to attack the French right flank.

It would be nice to hear from the playtesters on this one. I would like to hear how the battles went and how the exit hexes played into the strategy of the French player.

Bill

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:19 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Al Amos</i>
<br />Mark,

A little common sense, please.

Brussels = Victory

Paris = Defeat

Now, where do you think the exit hexes would be?

Colonel (ret) Al Amos
1er Dragoons
AdN
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Thanks Al, I figured that would be the case; but please, common sense does not always prevail in any walk of life [;)]

Regards

Mark
VII Corps


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2005 12:27 am 
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Mark Eason</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bill Peters</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by ranzzzz</i>
<br />Ahhhh can anyone tell me what "Full Barrett" is? I still have no clue. [?]

Capitaine Ranson Lee
4ème Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
7ème Division d'Infanterie
IIèmé Corps d'Armee Nord
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Its basically an all out assault on turn 1 on the British position with the intent of using every unit to wipe out the Anglo-Allied army.

In BGW this worked because the Objective VPs demanded that the Allies stand their ground. In the HPS game good luck! The Anglo-Allied army can actually maneuver over to join up with the Prussians earlier. The problem with this is that there are exit hexes for the French.

However, I dont think that the entire French army can exit from that exit hex so its going to be interesting to see how this all works out.

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Bill

Do you know whether the French exit hexes are to the north of the Allied position (direction of Brussels) or to the south of their own position (direction of Paris)[?]

If the latter that would definitely pose a problem.

Regards

Mark
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Mark,

Yeah, gotta second Al here. Its not that we are being sarcastic. The fact is that the VP exit hex is towards Brussels. It wouldnt be much of a game if all you had to do was march your army off the map to your rear?

Taking Brussels would have put the Anglo-Allies out of supply (Brits more than Dutch-Belgians/Hollanders/Hanoverians). Thus for the French to exit a hunk of units out of that exit location will give them alot of points. And frankly if they go for it its going to have to be carefully orchestrated as if you exit a portion of your army you leave the rest of the army in a diminished state. If you exit all of your army it would look kind of odd (but effective nonetheless I think).

My thinking is that the French will weigh the advantages of exiting units and do it as long as it doesnt leave the rest of the army in the lurch.

Or will the French do a Full Barrett for the exit hex? I am not sure and think that Wellington will be able to block any such move by such a large force in time for the Prussians to attack the French right flank.

It would be nice to hear from the playtesters on this one. I would like to hear how the battles went and how the exit hexes played into the strategy of the French player.

Bill

Oberst Wilhelm Peters
2nd Kuirassiers, Reserve Korps, Austrian Army

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Thanks Bill

I appreciate the location and purpose of the exit hex. Exit hexes are the only objective hexes I welcome in the games, others tend to be unnecessary (personal view).

The reason I was asking the question was that I came across a custom scenario, (different game), in which there was an exit hex behind the position occupied by a very small force. All that the player had to do to avoid being creamed by the much stronger enemy was exit the map without engaging the enemy and secure a draw.

So, common sense or no, errors like this can and do slip through the net!

Regards

Mark
VII corps


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