Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Rick,
I do not see HPS "resting on past laurels".

Every game to this point has granted us improvements to the engine. They've been evolutionary, as opposed to revolutionary, but if you go and play Eckmuhl 1.00 out of the box, and then play Waterloo, you'll see that John and company are far from resting on their "laurels".

FZM Freiherr Gary McClellan
Generalissimus Imperial Austrian Army
Portner Grenadier Battallion
Allied Coalition C-in-C

Gary,
I guess that all depends upon one's perspective of this issue.

If one looks at things from only your perspective, you are absolutely correct. Some improvements have been made over the years, but I dare say that there are more perspectives than that.



Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Le Tondu</i>
<br />Gary,
I guess that all depends upon one's perspective of this issue.

If one looks at things from only your perspective, you are absolutely correct. Some improvements have been made over the years, but I dare say that there are more perspectives than that.



Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yup, everyone has an opinion. We never said you couldnt have one either. Folks dont like the graphics, etc. Have heard all that, ad nosium, repeatus, so on, so forth.

I dont have time to keep punting the football here. You have your views and have stated them.

I am looking forward to the next game in the series. I know you are too. Will end this on a positive note. End of topic for me.



Bill Peters
Former NWC President, Club Founder, Prussian and Austrian Army Founder, Stefan Reuter's hunting buddy. HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

Rick,

This thread was started when Bill Peters posted a sample of the hypothetical maps he had developed in response to your request, <i>inter alia</i>, for greater variety in the next game. Instead of addressing the issue presented, the inclusion of hypothetical maps/scenarios, you crank up the same old record about how bad the HPS games are and how wonderful Les Grognards, Crown of Glory and BPW: Battles of Napoleon are going to be.

Given that CoG is full of bugs and the other two are still "vaporware", do me a favor and just zip it[:(!]. If and when there's a workable alternative game, I'll be the first to try it. Until then, I really don't want to hear it.

Paco

<i>Maréchal</i> M. Francisco Palomo
<i>Prince d'Essling, Grande Duc d'Abrantes et
Comte de Marseille
Commandant - Division de Cavalerie de la Vieille Garde </i>

I agree with bothsides here. Pressure to the structure can bring change, and I think some, and I stress some, changes are needed. HPS is a great system. It's engine is well done and is a better lot than BG. Also Waterloo was a nice breath of fresh air with some, I stress some, improved graphics. But still it is troublesome when Modders who make free games still have better designed games. Oh I will say using Volcano Man's graphics was a huge improvement. Things are moving forward as needed. I will continue to buy Nappy HPS games, but refuse to buy others. The ACW line is the same stuff over and over again and the same bad images. No more buying those, but the Nappy ones improved with Waterloo. Now I hope that there are improvements in graphics in the next one, that are built upon Waterloo. To be honest I got into the hobby because of BG and how much I loved the games. HPS was something that I found out about after I came. But if they continue to improve I think they will be ok. But alas LG looks to be quite the game, with 3D images, and Battlefront is a great organization. I'm not too pumped up on Matrix yet so we will see. Either which way I know we at the [url="http://napoleonicwargaming.com"]1NWCG[/url] are keeping a close eye on everything and waiting very anxiously for all games. [:D][:)]

Keep up the good work everyone, but please continue to improve things as I am sure you all know. [:D]

<center>--------------------------------------------------------



Herr Windbagenführer General der Infanterie Scott Prinz Ludwig von Saxe-Weimar
Aide-du-Kamp and Webmaster
Heer am Niederrhein

[url="http://www.prussianarmy.com/"]Königliche Preußische Armee[/url]

[url="http://www.networkforgood.org"]Network for Good[/url]

[url="http://napoleonicwargaming.com"]Napoleonic Wargaming - 1NWCG[/url]</center>

Scott,
Don't let the graphics in the ACW games put you off. I have mixed and matched a variety of graphical mods and in my opinion the games look superb with them. The best bit is the Regimental scale unit icons by Rolf Hall: http://acwsite2.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/index.html (they look better in the game than on the web images) . I picked up some terrain mods from various places including here: http://www.brettschulte.net/ACWCGDC/index.html - and also use most of them with the Napoleonic games too, including Atle Jenssen's terrain tiles and various other mods that are derived from Talonsoft's East/West Front, like trees and fields, etc.

<center>[url="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.r.barlow/Napoleonic/nap.htm"]Lieutenant Colonel Antony Barlow[/url]
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/anglo_allied_army_stats/Anglo_Allied_Army_Cavalry_Corps.htm"]2nd British (Union) Brigade, Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps[/url] ~
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/militaireacademie/dragoons.html"]4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards[/url] ~
</center>

Hey guys,
some of you forget that if it wasnt for the guys at HPS we wouldnt have the games in the first place.My first JT game was Ardennes under the Talonsoft label.I have been hooked on his games ever since.(As probably most of you guys out there are too.Its a question of just HAVING TO HAVE TO THE GAME:-)))) ). Lets face it,if the HPS games wereabsolutely perfect then there would be NO MODDERS out there! So the positive part of the HPS games is not just the great gaming they provide,but also the fun in bieng able to Mod them.Im getting excellent value for money in the sheer fun i have in playing and modding.I started modding thanks to the likes of Claus Beuter,JM Barbier,Cobexlaw,Greg Gorsuch Volcano Man Holger Barthen and all the other great modders out there who have put in countless hours into making the HPS and Talonsoft games even more fun.
Just remember guys its the Lads at HPS who have put in all the real work.I think every penny ive spent over the past years have been worth it.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by etrapanob</i>
<br />Hey guys,
some of you forget that if it wasnt for the guys at HPS we wouldnt have the games in the first place.My first JT game was Ardennes under the Talonsoft label.I have been hooked on his games ever since.(As probably most of you guys out there are too.Its a question of just HAVING TO HAVE TO THE GAME:-)))) ). Lets face it,if the HPS games wereabsolutely perfect then there would be NO MODDERS out there! So the positive part of the HPS games is not just the great gaming they provide,but also the fun in bieng able to Mod them.Im getting excellent value for money in the sheer fun i have in playing and modding.I started modding thanks to the likes of Claus Beuter,JM Barbier,Cobexlaw,Greg Gorsuch Volcano Man Holger Barthen and all the other great modders out there who have put in countless hours into making the HPS and Talonsoft games even more fun.
Just remember guys its the Lads at HPS who have put in all the real work.I think every penny ive spent over the past years have been worth it.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I appreciate this. Besides myself I know that I can speak for John Tiller, Rich and Charlie and our other designers that are hard at work on titles as I type. Thanks for your support.

On the other hand I am not for muzzling any one member here. I was not offended by any of Rick's comments. Like myself he may exercise his priveledge to post here as long as he doesnt break any forum rule.

Promoting a product does sort of get under folks skin which is why I try and tone down the cheerleading for the HPS products. Obviously I love the games too. However, the best voice for a product is the consumer. I post favorable comments to Glenn Saunders on the Panzer games but its sort of like the choir amen'ing the preacher. He knows that they are behind him but is the congregation?

Thus I appreciate these posts and Paco's defense. I also appreciate what Rick is trying to do and believe me, if I had the financial resources the HPS games could make anything that anyone has ever done for the Napoleonic era look like something that I drew (I am a terrible artist) in comparison. I would hire only the best graphics guys and so on. Unfortunately that is not possible.

I like what Mark and Joe do for our games. Believe me guys, THEY know that they are not the best and some of the criticism on their work done through the years is harsh and really not fair. In Mark's defense he does his very best. He went out and got a degree in CAD type stuff in order to do a better job for John. Thus I wont defend myself as much as I will Mark or Joe. Understand that we cant hire Don Troiani (sp) and you will enjoy the games that much more.

Thanks to all of you that responded here. All means all.

Bill Peters
Former NWC President, Club Founder, Prussian and Austrian Army Founder, Stefan Reuter's hunting buddy. HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

a simple question?? to all!!!

how many hours have you spent playing a game or a game mod relating to John Tiller or the guys that have supported him directly or indirectly??????????

think about it....you will probably sit back on your arses and think to yourselves........." holy sheet" now !!! how could you have put that time spent to a better purpose??? more time with your son daughter,grandchild??? More time with the wife???(fu.k no way ))
so hey guys JT and his crew over the years have on a small scale been like the "beatles" theyve taken over a part of our lives.....its quite scary really isnt it?

Andy please keep your language clean here sir. I honor free speech, but find gutter talk disgusting. You are a smart enough person to express yourself colorfully in an acceptable way.

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons

Andy Barnes - did you get my email of over a week ago? Sent it to you via the forum. Sent a second one but havent heard back from you.

Please respond via wmp3662@yahoo.com

(Am not afraid of this email address getting spammed. Yahoo has a nice folder where all of the junk gets put and you just flush it every so often. I use it for any wargame sites that demand an email address as part of letting you in.)

Bill Peters
Former NWC President, Club Founder, Prussian and Austrian Army Founder, Stefan Reuter's hunting buddy. HPS Napoleonic Scenario Designer (Eckmuhl, Wagram)

[url="http://www.fireandmelee.net"]Fire and Melee Wargame site[/url]

I haven't been here for four days and I want to say something.

The new Napoleonic games that will be coming out fairly soon are not vaporware! They are as real as you are. I have been closely following the development of <font color="orange">Les Grognards</font id="orange"> for more than four years. It has a major publisher backing it and news about its growth comes out with surprising regularity. I have also been following <font color="orange">BPW: Battles of Napoleon</font id="orange"> as well.

For Heaven's sake, we are the <font size="4"><b><font color="orange">Napoleonic</font id="orange"></b></font id="size4"> Wargaming Club aren't we???? Why shouldn't we talk about something new and exciting that should be released fairly soon?

As far as I can tell, we are not the <font size="4"><b><font color="orange">John Tiller</font id="orange"></b></font id="size4"> Wargaming Club. I make no mistake about it. John Tiller has done great things for our hobby by getting the ball rolling. <font color="orange">We will forever be grateful for that.</font id="orange"> His work was VERY important and we all have many hours of happy memories because of him. I'd love to hear that he is making a new and better Napoleonic game, but he apparently isn't.

So, if anyone thinks that our hobby is going to stop there, they've made a <b>BIG</b> mistake. It will change and grow as the years will go by. Heck, I can see a time when both of the new games will be a 10+ year old gaming technology just like the <font color="orange">HPS</font id="orange"> titles are now. Something else will come along and replace them. Its called life. I cannot change that and neither can you, so get over it.

We as a club have to evolve just like the games are evolving. Talk about it now or talk about it later. Either way, you're gonna talk about it ---or this club will fill an even smaller niche.

If you want to get angry and hate, go ahead. Please. Knock yourself out. Just remember that's your problem. Not mine.



Colonel Rick Motko
1er Bataillon, 33° Régiment d'Infanterie de Ligne
2eme Brigade, 11eme division
IIIe corps, Armée du Nord


Vive l'Empereur!

Rick,
There's no hate involved here. I guess people are just sensitive and get defensive when they <i>perceive</i> that they, or other people, or peoples' work are being attacked or unfairly criticised in one way or another (and I'm not judging one way or the other!). When there are strong personalities it soon get's cranked up out of all proportion, that's just human nature[xx(]. You and everyone else here has much to offer to this community. We all want the same things really. Sincere best wishes to all[:)]

<center>[url="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/a.r.barlow/Napoleonic/nap.htm"]Lieutenant Colonel Antony Barlow[/url]
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/anglo_allied_army_stats/Anglo_Allied_Army_Cavalry_Corps.htm"]2nd British (Union) Brigade, Anglo-Allied Cavalry Corps[/url] ~
~ [url="http://www.geocities.com/militaireacademie/dragoons.html"]4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards[/url] ~
</center>

Rick,

People have been playing chess for many years...do they have any plans of kicking it to the curb? I think not. [8D]

I'm open to new technology and new titles, as I think most everyone is. However, PBEM play is about the only format of gaming I can fit into my life, so unless a new titles supports that, there's little chance it will get much of my attention.

And I would personally appreciate it if you would stop berating the Tiller titles and how "poor" you think they are. Whether you mean it or not, it comes across very negatively. If you personally have a better product to put forth, then do so. I'm on the front lines daily, and come across people newly finding the games who are really enjoying them. And I personally have been playing John's games since '97...so that speaks of very high quality, in my book.

To say nothing new will ever come about is an uninformed guess, at best. HPS/Tiller has a long standing policy of not discussing things under development. I personally have been involved in several projects that have been going on for years. So, in time, new things do come about.

When these two new games you keep mentioning come out, and people get a chance to play them, I'm sure there will be a decent amount of discussion about them. But I think we all have seen, far too many times, where a title is"hyped" prior to release only to fall flat on it's face shortly there after, or maybe never even make it out the door. Certainly not saying I hope that happens here, quite the opposite, but I'm pretty sure it's why you are not seeing a lot of enthusiasm at this point for the topics you keep bringing up.

Regards,
Rich

Maréchal Hamilton, Baron d'Barbancon
21st Division
VII Corps, ADR

Saxon Leib-Garde, de la Jeune Garde, Garde Impériale

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="3" face="book antiqua" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Al Amos</i>
<br />Andy please keep your language clean here sir. I honor free speech, but find gutter talk disgusting. You are a smart enough person to express yourself colorfully in an acceptable way.

Colonel Al Amos
1erè Brigade Commandant
2ème Division de Dragons


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
oops sorry Al,i cut and pasted that one from the other forum.My apols..Anyone wanting to cut that one may do so.Once again sorry.