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Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC) :: View topic - Extended Line
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Extended Line
https://wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15617		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Cezary Pluskwa [ Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Extended Line
:frenchsalute:

Sirs,

Who still uses the extended lines in JTS/HPS Napoleonic games? The one hex of lines is typical, no problem for us. We often use their to increase of strength firepower or to protect from artillery fire. The line needn't concern the lonely battalion, may be a long line of battalions, side by side, in the scale of regiment, brigade, even in the division. What do you think? Tips, tactics, thoughts. I ask, becouse, what is the difference between a column and a line? The column of battalion is also the line, exactly lines of companies into the depth. :thumbsup:

:frenchvive:
Author:  SLudwig [ Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
There may be times I use extended line, especially if I have a gap that is threatened. Also sometimes line vs column has it's own advantages....depends on the game & circumstance....
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
I wish units in extended line would not act as 2 separate units but as 1, it's just a large battalion that has such a large front that it covers 2 hexes.
Besides that, playing phases and using the right rules improves the need to extend big battalions into lines because the typical 3-Rank Infantry in "Shortened Line" fires with 75% effectiveness while in "Normal Line" or "Extended Line" it fires at 100%.
This can make battalions above the extended line value less effective compared to being in Extended line.

The typical behavior of that time was to make a battle line as long as possible to have the ability to wrap around the enemy flank if his line isn't as long as yours.
Author:  Francisco Palomo [ Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
Mssrs.,

One problem with deploying into Extended Line is that the resulting units cannot form square. If your opponent has a strong cavalry force, they will shred your extended line units in the blink of an eye. :french???:

Regards,


Paco
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
Indeed but at least my test in Austerlitz showed that you can fold back into shortened line and form a square within the movement phase.
Of course unless disrupted but at that point it doesn't matter if your extend or not.
Author:  Francisco Palomo [ Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
Christian,

Carrying out multiple formation changes (Extended Line to Line to Square) only works if you keep the subunits adjacent to each other at all times. The change into or out of Extended Line must be the first thing a unit performs during its movement phase. Any other movement, such as moving to be adjacent to the other subunit, prevents the unit from executing the extended line formation change.

Moreover, if one of the subunits is routed away or destroyed, the other is trapped in Extended Line for the rest of the battle.

Regards,

Paco
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
Author:  Francisco Palomo [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
Christian,

Pretermitting the issue of what improvements should be made to the current game engine, my basic point is that, in its current form, deploying into Extended Line poses significant risks.

This thread was begun by someone who, I assume, is a novice seeking advice on the relative advantages of the extended line formation and when it should be used. It CAN be a very useful formation which I have employed on numerous occasions. However, I would discourage any novice from using it until they have fully grasped the risks it entails and how best to minimize those risks.

Regards,

Paco
Author:  John Corbin [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
Paco.... please share the benifits/risks with us.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
Here are a few:

1. Cant square with one portion of an Extended Line (EL).

2. Diminished defense value means that it is more vulnerable to melee. (odds heavily in favor of attacker)

3. If one part of the Extended Line routs means that the other part is hung out to dry. It cant reform with its other half until that part rallies.

Note: Extended Line CAN form Column. So Tip: if one half of the EL does rout away put the other half into column and get it off the line.

EL works best when you have:

1. Good cover - like behind a HIGH WALL

2. Lots of reserves behind it. Sure let the other side attack. Disorders their troops and you can attack them in your turn. Just watch out for cavalry charges that can reach your reserves in the same turn that your EL is struck.

But like Paco said, its risky at best to use this formation.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
Author:  Colin Knox [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
I quite like using extended line every now and again. Paco and Bill have pretty much covered pro's and con's.
The big downer is the square issue I agree.

The only thing I would add is that its more useful with artillery than infantry in my mind. Breaking 8 gun batteries down into 2 x 4 can be helpful depending on the tactical/operational situation and the resultant stack sizes.

This can increase tactical flexibility. Eg 12 Guns in Leipzig is 1500 men. Put a 300 man light infantry unit with it that has detached some skirmishers and you have a viable defense of the battery and a lot of firepower in one hex within the stacking limit. Particularly good for the Russian artillery in these later titles.
The skirmishers you detached can be placed out the front to enhance defense a little further. Just remember to move them out of the way when you fire.

Salute!
Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
I am currently playing a small Austerlitz Scenario (33 turns Wertigen) in phased based (and Colin and I played a phased based game about a decade ago!), and I see Christian's points about extended line's usefulness in phased based play.

I will also note that the use of line changed over time for the different armies. By 1809, the Austrians heavily relied on column and "mass" formations (a mass is between a column and a square), and I think much of the French army was fighting in column in 1809 vs. Austria. I am not as sure about 1812, but in 1813-1815, as many recruits were rushed to the colors to replace losses and build armies from scratch, all of the main combatants with the exception of Britain (and maybe Spain) mostly used lines---in this period the % of losses went up drastically as the artillery ratio increased for many armies and the density of formation increased...

my semi-informed 2 cents.

I rarely use extended line except as Bill describes---in a strong position with reserves...
Author:  Francisco Palomo [ Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Extended Line
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