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Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Guard
https://wargame.ch/board/nwc/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16825		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Bill Peters [ Sun Mar 06, 2022 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Guard
After Campaign Jena-Auerstaedt was released I was informed that Prince Louis Advance Guard OB of Saalfeld June 9th, 1806 was incorrect. Later on I purchased that lovely, illustrated, oversized volume on the campaign that Empire Press released. Scott Bowden was the editor. I sold the book to John Corbin and never copied the OB.

If anyone has the correct OB for the Advance Guard (Saalfeld and start of campaign if its different) from that book would you contact me? I would like to put out a corrected OB which also would merge the small Prussian 2 gun sections into "Brigade Batteries." The name of the book is: "NAPOLEON'S APOGEE Pascal Bressonnets's Tactical Studies 1806 Saalfeld, Jena, Auerstadt"

I dont want to bother John Corbin with this (eyesight). On the other hand, John, if you are reading this I could work with a cell phone picture of the page if its clear. I can zoom in the image in Photoshop to get what I need.

Note: The Nafziger Collection OB is incorrect. Just saving someone the trouble in sending that one to me.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Gu
Scott Ludwig is going to provide me with the pages I need. Consider this request closed.
Author:  Jim Pfleck [ Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Gu
That book sounds very interesting. How was it?
Author:  Bill Peters [ Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Gu
Its lovely book. Oversized and loaded with lovely illustrations. I lamented having to sell off my Emperor's Press books but they were just not going to be able to go with me as I moved around from place to place. I really don't miss my books. I miss my tools a lot more! I had a nice garage full of power and hand tools.
Author:  Christian Hecht [ Tue Mar 08, 2022 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Gu
Well if you really work on the OOB again let me point to the research I had done years ago regarding the strength of various Prussian unit types:
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=15937

Essence of it:
- Grenadier bat. too small
Should be theoretical 775 men strong, of course deserters, sick, etc. have to be applied. Currently the average is about 680, so 100 men short what seems a little too small.

- Fusilier bat. too small
Should be theoretical 680 men strong, of course deserters, sick, etc. have to be applied. Currently the average is about 600, so 80 men short what seems a little too small.
And there were no bat. guns, they left them in the depots for whatever reason.

- Musketier bat. too large
Should be theoretical 804-805 for the first and 798-799 for the second bat. men strong, of course deserters, sick, etc. have to be applied. Currently the average is about 840, adding some depicted Schützen units they would be even above 850 strong that is way to much.

- Artillery should be a burden not a help for the Prussians
I had thought about doing something myself and had considered to use 2 gun units so each bat(Gren. & Musk.) gets an artillery unit. But I assume you find that to cumbersome. In that case I can only beg to use 4 gun units to depict the artillery of a musk. regiment grouped together, and see if the same can be done for the grenadiers, I think some grenadier bat. were often kept paired.
The whole point here is what the French also realized in 1812, battalion guns suck and are a burden when moving the army and not much help when on the battlefield. This isn't the 7 years war anymore, this is a new time with a new way of waging war. There is a reason why the Allies abandoned them, and even Napoleon only added regimental guns meaning one 4 gun battery per regiment. regiments that were even enlarged shortly before the campaign to 6 bat. per regiment of which 5 were fielded. So not even 1 gun per battalion.



So to put it very short, make Grenadier & Fusilier bat. bigger, make Musketier bat. smaller, add batteries not larger then 4 guns to depict bat. guns of Grenadier & Musketier bat..
Author:  Bill Peters [ Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Gu
Thanks for the information, Christian. Pretty much this is a project of my own. Check my email I sent you for a more in-depth answer. Right now I am tied up with the Panzer work so this is something I would do on my own later this year or into next year.

Bottom line for anyone reading this: The strengths were set during the time I had to work on it and that would be up to Rich Hamilton and his Nap. update team if they want to do that. My concern was the ORG of the Advance Guard. And fixing it and putting it out as a "Mod" is probably more like what I would do anyway. That way Rich doesn't get any support emails on it.

I agree totally with you on the small gun units. Either dump them or combine them. The ACW title on the Peninsular battles of 1862 always bothered me with I played the CSA side as they have a ton of small 2 gun units. Each takes up one hex on the road while the Union generally have 4 gun units. So one Reb artillery unit takes up as much "space" as the Union sections. I would love to have either 4 or 6 gun units in all of the titles I worked on as 12 or even 8 guns probably could have not been in road column in a hex and not been overstacked.

Anyway, consider my quest fulfilled and thanks for the response! I have two Panzer titles I am working on so this obviously is something for the distant future I would do.
Author:  Al Amos [ Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Gu
"But I assume you find that to cumbersome. " - Christian

IMO, the early allied armies should be cumbersome, awkward and clunky to us. They are hybrid formations at best adhoc at worst. We are used to the Napoleonic corps system as it has been handed down to us, more or less. The non-French armies of 1805-10 and the French armies of the revolutionary wars still have as their basic structure reflect Fredrickan influence, whose organization was best for linear armies of 40k or less.

Our orders of Battle should be built to help show the differences between the various nations and how they approached modernization, and not just by moving troop values up and down, or arbitrarily clumping or grouping items together for our connivence.
Author:  Al Amos [ Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Gu
Jim Pfleck wrote:
That book sounds very interesting. How was it?


Jim, a friend gave me Bowden's book on 3e Corps 180-07. A beautiful book. I can only imagine what Apogee is like.
Author:  Bill Peters [ Tue Apr 19, 2022 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Gu
Its a lovely book. Scott Ludwig now owns my copy and can attest to its being one of the prizes of his collection.
Author:  SLudwig [ Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Seeking Information on Prince Louis' Prussian Advance Gu
Bill Peters wrote:
Its a lovely book. Scott Ludwig now owns my copy and can attest to its being one of the prizes of his collection.


It absolutely is and a fantastic book hands down, illustrations and all! I've been hoping to find some of the others published in the series to round out the set. They're made to last, that's for sure.
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