Napoleonic Wargame Club (NWC)

Good morning and happy Christmas to all.

I'm a collector (on a smallish scale) of antique firearms. I've been looking at a Model 1777 Year IX musket recently. The St Etienne manufactory stamp is clear on the lock plate, but there are various other proof and inventory marks/cartouches (not to mention the surname of some soldier) that I'm trying to puzzle out. Is there a reference work -- similar to "The English Connection" or "Confederate Firearms and Muskets" for weapons carried by the Confederacy during the WBTS -- that deciphers and explains the meanings of these various marks.

The 1777 is in very nice condition and at a good price, so I'm leaning toward buying it. (There's even a flint in the lock.) Any additional links about the 1777 - beyond the sparse Wikipedia article - would be appreciated; I gather it was slightly more accurate than the Charleville and so maybe used more by Legere?

Thanks all and happy Christmas.

_________________
Lieutenant James Holloway
20th East Devonshire Regiment of Foot
XI British Brigade
VI Division
III Peninsular Corps

We have always been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.
-- Sir Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

Hey James,

Very interesting topic!

Have you tried contacting some of the FIW or Rev War National or various State Parks in the US?

_________________
Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

Scott, that's a great idea. I'll try the parks in South Carolina - pardon the dumb question, but what is FIW?

The name etched on the stock (it looks the work of a bored soldier) is French. I don't think it would have been carried by French troops during the so-called "american revolution," despite the 1777 name, production on this particular model didn't begin until 1800. Bonaparte himself commissioned a rework of the existing musket - that's why it was known as the 1777 Year IX. There's also an 1808 stamp on the lock, which I would assume means the year of service. As mentioned, there's a couple of interesting cartouches. On Confederate firearms (I have an Enfield that was purchased by the state of Georgia and smuggled through the blockade) there is a whole science to deciphering these; it tends to indicate the inspector and/or armory. The Wikipedia article suggests that many of this model were left in Germany and used by Prussians troops up till 1840, so some may be of a German provenance.

Best regards.

_________________
Lieutenant James Holloway
20th East Devonshire Regiment of Foot
XI British Brigade
VI Division
III Peninsular Corps

We have always been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.
-- Sir Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

Oh that';s interesting the different production years of the musket. Also fascinating that some of them were used until the 1840!

FIW = French & Indian War. Sorry, used to typing it shorthand. There might be an armory museum in France that could lend some insight, just not sure which one would be useful to contact.

It's possible that these two places could tell you more or direct you to a place/person who could:

Fortress Louisbourg - https://www.fortressoflouisbourg.ca

Old Fort Niagara - https://www.oldfortniagara.org

Even though they don't quite fit the search parameters, they might be able to help direct you.

_________________
Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

Thanks Scott! Fwiw, just poking around a bit I'm increasingly comfortable that it's legit. Besides the shape, various marks on this piece are consistent with images of Model 1777 Ans IX rifles I saw on the Royal Armouries (UK) and a few other historical sites. It also has the carved cheek-hollow on the butt and rudimentary finger-grips below the trigger. St Etienne was, and then, a major manufacturer of arms for the French armed forces.

The 1777 Ans IX is a modification of the "Charleville" (the original Model 1777) that was ordered by Bonaparte in 1800; about 2 million were made. There was also an Ans XIII (the year refers to the year after the revolution.

What's most intriguing is that the name "Semette" is carved on the butt. According to Geneanet and the French Ministry of Arms, three Semettes served in the Grande Armee, two of them post 1808 when the rifle was made. One is Nicolas Semette, who served in the 12th Line 1813-1814; Antoine, Imperial Guard Artillery 1813-1814 (in which he likely would not have carried a muskets.

_________________
Lieutenant James Holloway
20th East Devonshire Regiment of Foot
XI British Brigade
VI Division
III Peninsular Corps

We have always been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.
-- Sir Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

Wow, very cool! That's awesome you're able to get information on the name too. Quite a number of significant battles the 12th was in, even in just the period that Nicolas served.

Hope you're able to purchase it, if you decide to do so!

_________________
Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support

Pretty sure I will. A "Charleville" (which is what this one is, although made in St Etienne) and a Brown Bess are the ones I was hoping to add to the collection this year. Once I do I'll post pictures here.

And yeah, the 12th has quite a record - from 1808 onward:.

1809: Thann, Abensberg, Eckmuhl, Ratisbonne, Eugerau and Wagram
1812: Wilna, Drissa, Witepsk, Smolensk, Valoutina and La Moskowa
1813: Hambourg and Dresden
1814: Anvers. Arcis-sur-Aube and Saint-Dizier
1815: Waterloo

Battle honors at Auerstadt and Wagram. I guess in theory, this musket could have made it to Russia and back.

_________________
Lieutenant James Holloway
20th East Devonshire Regiment of Foot
XI British Brigade
VI Division
III Peninsular Corps

We have always been, we are, and I hope that we always shall be detested in France.
-- Sir Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

Please do, I'm sure the other members would appreciate it!

Also, wouldn't that be something if it had gone to Russia & back.

_________________
Generalfeldmarschall Scott Kronprinz "Vorwärts" Ludwig von Preußen
Kommandeur des Königlich-Preußischen Armee-Korps
Chief of Staff (CoS) of the Allied Coalition
Allied Coalition Webmaster & Club Website Support