American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

Club Members,

The recent Version 4.05.5 has done something to the Artillery Effectiveness which has greatly increased the probability of gun kills. Without getting into exhaustive detail, just assume that whatever probability you previously believed would be "normal" to destroy an enemy artillery gun should be halved. If you previously thought, "maybe a ten to one chance I knock out a gun," now you can make that five to one. Destroying enemy artillery is now far more achievable than ever before.

I emailed WDS the Data and the specifics of this situation and I hope to hear back from them sooner or later. But whatever is going on is unlikely to be fixed anytime soon. Until then, build breastworks to protect your guns, use trenches, take advantage of high ground, do whatever you can to protect your guns better.

For the foreseeable future, using Version 4.05.5 makes knocking out guns as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

________

Specifics:
I base the above on a test of 550 offensive firing events (all the same) utilizing both Version 4.04 and Version 4.05.5. The scenario created tested mass firing events with all variables eliminated meaning every event produced the same offensive firepower in every shot. In Version 4.04 the probability of knocking out an enemy gun was 33%. In Version 4.05.5, despite it being the same exact scenario and test, the loss percentage skyrocketed to 56%. This is way outside of the acceptable margin of error and points directly to a coding issue with the newest WDS version.

This is also based on two reports from dependable players who reported extreme artillery losses in their games and questioning what was happening. Lastly, it is based on personal observations which led me to begin to suspect something was really going on here which defied normal explanation.

_________________
Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

As we discussed privately I believe the situation arises from the Density Fire Modifier.

When the stacking value of guns was changed from 25 to 80 the new coding may not have taken the Density Fire Modifier into consideration. So, if someone crams 12 guns into a 125 yard stretch of standard hex then: 12 X 80 = 960. They will suffer a whopping density penalty.

Fortunately, my house rule of maximum artillery stacks of six or eight guns means that penalty can largely be avoided. 6 guns X 80 = 480: 8 guns X 80 = 640: no penalty from the Density Fire Modifier in either circumstance.

_________________
Paul Swanson
Lieutenant-General
First Division
First Corps
Army of Northern Virginia

_________________
Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

ROFL.
I would actively encourage Union players to cram as many guns as possible into a hex. That would be fun now.

Also, don't forget that in some scenarios the stacking limit is 800. The maximum guns that can be placed in hexes for those games is 10; put 10 guns in one of those hexes and you will suffer the full 50% Density Fire Modifier. You will even suffer it if you put 8 guns in those hexes as you have 75% of the hex maximum. Only with the six-gun limit will you avoid the penalty which only occurs once the stack exceeds two-thirds of the hex maximum.

_________________
Paul Swanson
Lieutenant-General
First Division
First Corps
Army of Northern Virginia

I emailed Blake a little while ago but I'm posting here so everyone is aware, although you're probably in the process of ringing in the New Year.

I'm fairly sure I've solved the artillery issue discussed above. Here's how it works:
The 80 men per gun is only for stacking purposes; and
The Density Fire Modifier is based on the number of men in the hex (the stack);
BUT
The 'Crew Kill' is still based upon 25 men per gun; and
It is the same when artillery are firing upon artillery, 25 men per gun.

So, although the Density Fire Modifier is counting guns as 80 men, when artillery is fired upon the guns only count as 25 men. Thus, it is easier to kill 25 men than 80. The Density Fire Multiplier is enhanced at both ends of the calculation so there is a greater effect than the maximum 50% for Density Fire Multiplier.

_________________
Paul Swanson
Lieutenant-General
First Division
First Corps
Army of Northern Virginia

Blake & Paul,

Thank you guys for bringing this issue to the forefront. This is pretty eye-opening stuff and you can bet that I for one will be changing up how many units I post in a hex with an artillery battery.

_________________
Lt. General Tim Reneau
Army of Tennessee
Commanding

ACWGC Academy Instructor

_________________
Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

_________________
Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

_________________
Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

Is Atlanta's hex capacity 1,000? [I know that 480/800 is still below the two-thirds capacity where the modifier should kick in but 60% is close and maybe, just maybe, the games' coding has rounded it off and starts at 60%. You can't trust everything in the manual, as we know there are some things that are misleading, or left out and the manuals are strangely silent.]
What are the percentages for 1-gun kills? [To me that is a better figure to analyse over the overall percentage (which is skewed by outlying chance in multiple gun kills which are much lower percentages but possibly given the same weight in the overall average).]
Why is v4.04 50 men per gun and 300 per hex, whereas v4.05.5 is 80 men per gun and 480 per hex? [Apples and oranges?]
Are the guns suffering Fatigue during the tests?

Also, as discussed by email a couple of days ago, I said that there does seem to be another factor at play. I don't know what it is but I hazarded a guess that Quality Rating may play a part. Are all the guns in the tests C-rated or something else?

_________________
Paul Swanson
Lieutenant-General
First Division
First Corps
Army of Northern Virginia

True.
Note: when infantry are stacked with artillery the modifier will count the artillery at their stacking value (80 men per gun) so you don't have to have many men with the guns before the infantry start to incur heavy losses when fired upon. So, if you have a 400-man unit stacked with 4 guns expect heavy losses if either are fired upon.

_________________
Paul Swanson
Lieutenant-General
First Division
First Corps
Army of Northern Virginia

Atlanta Hex Limit is 1,000.

I didn't do gun loss per firing event here just to save time (that slowed me down a lot). I was just looking for overall number and percentage of kills per firing event.

Previous game versions had the number of men per gun (for stacking purposes) as 50. This is why the old stacking limit was 20 guns (20 x 50 = 1,000). The new version made it 80 men per gun which limits us to 12 guns per hex (12 x 80 = 960).

Artillery Quality does not effect accuracy. The WDS manual states that the optional rule for Optional Quality Fire Modifier only works with infantry and cavalry (+10% for high quality units).

_________________
Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012

So Put your batteries in Breastworks above and behind your lines when possible

_________________
COL. R.T Coyne
7th Brigade 4th Division" Coyne's Cavalry Rangers"
1st Corp Army of Northern Virginia

_________________
Gen. Blake Strickler
Confederate General-in-Chief
El Presidente 2010 - 2012