American Civil War Game Club (ACWGC)

Well, I thought I ought to get this one out there with all of the rest, just so I could be considered as a real, all-around complainer! Plus its something I've been thinking about for quite a while now anyway.

Ever wished for the mapboard to go slightly dark at <b><font color="purple">dusk</font id="purple"></b>, and then moonlight <b><font color="navy">dark</font id="navy"></b> during the night turns? Some years back I played a Civil War battle game, can't remember the name though, that did just that...and did it very well! You could still barely see your units if they were encamped or motionless and each one would have a little campfire <b><font color="orange">winking</font id="orange"></b> away. Some of the buildings and homes would show lantern and candle <b><font color="yellow">light</font id="yellow"></b> thru their windows...all in all, it felt like night!

Now our Battleground and HPS games don't have anything like that. But I think it'd be great if they did. Moreoever, let's think, for a minute, about these battlefields remaining completely lit up for a night. The current design does a good, necessary job of limiting Line-of-Sight for both the dusk and night turns; but isn't there a little bit more to it than that?

I suppose that the period battlefield maps (not the one's made up for the official reports, but the ones in daily use by the various commands), by most accounts, were pretty decent guides for finding the correct routes to wherever you needed to go. But few of them had the intricate, topographical detailing of a modern day map; that is, they didn't <i>completely</i> replicate the actual ground to the extent that our game maps provide. And that's my point! When it got <font color="navy">dark</font id="navy"> the commanders couldn't see the ground to any appreciable extent at all anymore and were forced to fall back strictly on their guide maps and memories. <b><font color="red">"So OK! What's the deal?"</font id="red"></b>, you say.

Well how about having a game that did just exactly that! Just let the ground you actually occupy and, say, the ground around for a 4 to 5 hex distance fade out to a <b><font color="navy">dark</font id="navy"></b>, barely descernible degree. Everything beyond that throw into complete darkness. Oh, you'd also keep the current line of sight rules intact for enemy unit contact, so you could still have the possiblity of bad guys lurking around in those faintly descernible hexes as well, but you wouldn't know for sure unless you move around to find out! Do you think that would have an effect upon night movements as we currently enjoy them?

I guess you could say, <b><font color="red">"No, not really!" "The ground is familiar enough to everyone already, and even if it wasn't you could always draw your own rough map to remind yourself!"</font id="red"></b> Really?! Isn't that what the actual commanders relied upon?!

It tends to all get back to that old adage, <i>"Out of sight, out of mind."</i> If you black out those portions of the mapboard that you can't really see at night, don't those portions tend to become slightly nebulous and unclear in your mind? The psychological effect is what I'm after here. Don't you think that if we could make those computer gamemaps go <b><font color="navy">dark</font id="navy"></b> at nightime that there wouldn't be at least some <i>slight</i> psychological effect in play for both players? And wouldn't that enhance the experience of the game a little more? And isn't that what its all about?



Lt.-Col. Jos. C. Meyer,
4th Brg'd, Cav. Div., 14th Corps, Army of the Cumberland

<font face="Verdana"><font size="4"><font color="orange">Col Meyer Sir! <salute>

The game you are talking about is one of my all time favorites, <font color="beige"><b>Civil War Generals II</b></font id="beige">. It was kool, night came and the campfires were lit, <font color="beige">actually, now that I think about it, was not so much a campfire but a lit tent. So what you had was a tent on each hex where there was a unit.</font id="beige"> It was a really nice touch and if you remember the crickets came out too! Only problem was you could whip the snot out of the A/I all the time, whether as the Yanks or the Rebs. It did have a very nice editor which allowed you to convert all of your old board games to it's format. I spent hundreds of hours with the darn thing.

<font color="beige">Hank, I never played on line, only against the A/I. At one time Sierra had put out a patch at their website which helped to enhanced their campaign tree. I was putting together these created battles and adding them to the tree, lots of fun. It was interesting to build your forces up between battles with the spoils that were gained during the previous battle.</font id="beige">

Regards,</font id="orange"></font id="size4"></font id="Verdana">

<font color="orange"><font size="4">Nick Kunz

General
Eastern Theater
Interim Commander
Confederate States of America</font id="orange"></font id="size4">

Joe
Got me wondering- could it be done ALL the time? In other words day or night- not only can you only see units that your scouts can see but terrain as well!!??? Designers?

Colonel Tony Best
Army of Georgia

Hi,
I think the HPS system has come a long way in its treatment of night. In the beginning, night combat was encouraged because of the severe morale penalty for night morale checks, a penalty I never agreed with, particularly since it applies to morale checks from the last dusk turn but on its merits as well. Historically, night attacks were few and generally unsuccessful. At least the new melee fatigue penalty and newer optional movement penalty have served to discourage night combat and movement.

I like the idea of the map darkening as night approaches. I would like to see the night visibility effects occur gradually though; four hexes on the first dusk turn, three on the second and two on the third. Of course, all nights are not equal. A clear night with a full moon is a lot different than a cloudy night with a new moon. But I think as a general rule, the current restrictions and penalties for night movement and combat are adequate, except the night morale penalty. I wish I knew what the basis for it was.

MG Mike Mihalik
1/III/AoMiss/CSA

Hey all,

SSG's title "Carrier's at War" also has the above descrbed feature. Illumination begins to diminish at dusk, minimizes at sunset, begins to increase at sunrise, and maximizes in daylight. There is absolutel no confusion as to time whether playing with a 12 hour clock or a 24 hour clock.

Fld. Lt. Larry Kocher
4th Brigade
1st Division
I Corps
Army of Georgia

Nick, What was your ID at WON back when you played CWG2.....I was (You'll never guess)Jefferson H. Davis....Hence I carried my SN here....There is still a CWG2 group, though it is small these days....They moved to Kali when WON went down.....Kali went done a few days ago.....Could finally be the end for them....A shame....There are a LOT of features CWG2 had that I would love to see incorporated into this game system....This is more tactical, but many of the CWG2 features were ahead of this game....Regards, Hank

BG Hank Smith
Army of Georgia
Smith's Texas Division
Smith's Corp

Well, Nick Kunz (Warbison) and Jefferson H. Davis (Hank Smith) knew what I was talking about and correctly identified the older game as Sierra's Civil War Generals II! And Larry Kocher (Caliban) described SSG's Carriers at War as another game that incorporated graphical night effects. Mike Mihalik would like to see a progressive darkening of the board as dusk deepens, a nice realism touch, and agrees that the existing night penalties for movement and combat are certainly adequate, but would like an explanation for the basis of the night morale penalty. Tony Best took a short walk down the forward-thinking trail and applied the <i>suggested</i> graphical restrictions to night turns as a valid consideration to rethinking how daytime visuals are handled! Everyone seems to agree so far that a graphical and modified capability treatment of dusk, night and dawn turns would be a good thing.

But I'd like to hear from some more of you out there, either pro or con, as you may have the additional time to consider the concept. And if this has been a subject of former tavern conversation and discussion I'd like to hear from those of you who recall the issues as they were then discussed. I'd personally like to see some sort of future upgrade to the games to allow this to become a reality, simply because I think it would enhance each of the game systems and thereby increase interest in the ACWGC.

Lt.-Col. Jos. C. Meyer,
4th Brg'd, Cav. Div., 14th Corps, Army of the Cumberland

It's simple to implement. Turn the gamma on your monitor way down low, light some candles, and go blind trying to move your army.[:D]

Seriously, it is very difficult other than for mood setting to do much with the night. Most of the rules (morale, fatigue, movement) are there to try to keep you from using the night. The armies did make night marches and occasionally fights (usually a mistake) but it was very hard on the troops. Under current HPS rules we still over use the night. Good examples of night marches gone bad are Grant's turning moves in the Overland Campaign. He repeatedly tried to march troops at night from his right to his left and attack at dawn. The result was worn out troops who didn't arrive in time to attack. When they did they went in piecemeal and got beat. A good exmaple of a night march that worked is Anderson's move to Spottsylvannia.

Pros: It would be nice to better represent the affects of night combat and marching on the troops. Movement other than along roads should be very fatiguing and cause considerable disruption/disorder of the regiments. Movement along roads should also be very fatiguing. Combat should cripple both sides, winner and loser. The game should reproduce the reasons for not fighting or marching at night.

Cons: Other than penalty rules there is little you can do to simulate night. Merely fogging out terrain penalizes newer players. I could correctly march a column across the Gettysburg map just seeing one hex in front so I could keep on the road.

LG. Kennon Whitehead
Chatham Grays
III Corps, AoM (CSA)